Farce Great Western

[devon_metro]

Personally i think First should put a bit more money into improving capacity and make a bit less profit. Stuff the shareholders.

What difference to the DfT does it make if a 153 is shoved on the back of a commuter train?

Maybe they should stop feeding Virgin money and make them pay premiums too.

 

[Jim]

Not true of the many of the Gloucester based FGW conductors. They'll always attempt to check tickets and collect fares if loadings allow. A few will attempt to get from one end of the train to the other no matter what.

Yes, because those services that you go on (2 a day?) are the only services they work, when you look at all the Taxi & Passenger bits on the diagrams!

 

[87015]

Personally i think First should put a bit more money into improving capacity and make a bit less profit. Stuff the shareholders.
What difference to the DfT does it make if a 153 is shoved on the back of a commuter train?
Maybe they should stop feeding Virgin money and make them pay premiums too.

Couldn't agree more...
Think everyone would like to see that....but our railway doesnt seem to work like that

 

[Jim]

Why should ATW who have vanadlised out units get our ok units when we keep the junk.

Wrong, they have got most the cra* 150's, they might need to buy some parts now!

 

[Jim]

Couldn't agree more...
Think everyone would like to see that....but our railway doesnt seem to work like that

It is not allways posiable sadly, things like putting a 153 on the back of a 143 as you can't collect fares in the 143...

 

[Jim]

First GreatWestern have made it on to "BBC points west" for the 4th time thisd week

 

[devon_metro]

It is not allways posiable sadly, things like putting a 153 on the back of a 143 as you can't collect fares in the 143...

Although surely providing an extra 75 seats is better than not collecting fares as quickly.

I wasn't suggesting putting them on with 143s as generally fGW are prats if the send a 143 on a service other than a branch line, and all of fGWs other stock is comapatable. A wise move would have been to standardise the whole fGW fleet so they can all couple with corridors allowing revenue to be colleced and maybe spening that extra money to improve the stock to good working condition and having a standard fleet 150s, 153s and 158s and TBH the nodding donkeys are just the rusted link in the chain.

 

[paul1609]

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...
A train operator company runs a franchise - in effect it is a contractor
delivering a specification laid down by the Government. The timetable now
in operation was devised by DfT, not FGW, and to be fair a lot of the more
ludicrous elements have been changed by FGW with DfT's consent (look at the
draft spec issued last March to see how much worse it could have been). The
stock to run that timetable is also agreed by DfT, and no private company is
going to invest in any item above the specification (e.g. extra train
leasing) for which there is not a commercial return. Hence the 153s going
to store. And before any bright spark says that the capacity could easily
be filled in the peaks, yes it could, but this is not enough (even with fare
increases) to make it economically viable. So if you want a decent train
service it needs to be specified and funded properly, and if you think it is
not specified and funded properly then blame the politicians for letting
Whitehall get away with it. Even better, don't vote for them - except that
none of the major parties seem willing to change the rules of the game.
Blaming FGW is missing the point: whoever had won the Greater Western
franchise, yes even Turner's Coaches, would now be behaving in the same way.

Posted at SWRG earlier....
Ta very muchly ShedMaster.

This sums up my posts perfectly and explains the situation rather well.

Moral!? Think befeore engaging ones mouth (or ar$e!? :roll

I disagree, when I pay my money for a train service I am paying it to First Great Western. My contract is with First Great Western to transport me on time in a reasonable manor to my destination.

First great Western have signed a contract with the Dft to provide that service at a bid that First Great western themselves provided.

Since First Great Western took over the service from Wessex it has deteriorated steadily. On my line (cardiff to portsmouth/ brighton) large numbers of trains are now so late that they are turned back at Salsibury/ Southampton/ Fareham. I can only recall 1 occasion in the last 2 weeks when one of these services was within 5 mins of correct time Eastbound and then it was a wedged 150!

Passengers should be complaining bitterly at all First great Western Staff and protesting in any legal way against First Great Western at every opportunity.

The Dft should as an immediate step suspend First from negotiating any futher franchises including any renewal of their other franchises. They should be imposing the fines that are specified in the contract now. if First cant deliver what they have signed up to within a reasonable time say another 12 months they should forfeit the franchise and any performance bonds.

 

[devon_metro]

But who would continue the franchise?

Poor infrastructure
Loss making branch lines
Knackered trains
Severe over-crowding

Not a good prospect...

 

[Tom C]

Passengers should be complaining bitterly at all First great Western Staff and protesting in any legal way against First Great Western at every opportunity.

Why should people be taking out their frustrations on Great Western staff?

The vast majority of staff at Great Western would have transfered from Wessex and the original Great Western franchise and they can only do the job with the tools they are provided with.

If you want to vent your spleen then do it to the company who actually have some power to change things rather than the guard on your train who has done nothing wrong other than not knowing that he would end up working for a faceless company like First.

 

[Jim]

Why should people be taking out their frustrations on Great Western staff?

The vast majority of staff at Great Western would have transfered from Wessex and the original Great Western franchise and they can only do the job with the tools they are provided with.

If you want to vent your spleen then do it to the company who actually have some power to change things rather than the guard on your train who has done nothing wrong other than not knowing that he would end up working for a faceless company like First.

IMO, the FGW managment is the problem

 

[Jim]

Although surely providing an extra 75 seats is better than not collecting fares as quickly.

Correction, you can't at all

 

[paul1609]

Why should people be taking out their frustrations on Great Western staff?

The vast majority of staff at Great Western would have transfered from Wessex and the original Great Western franchise and they can only do the job with the tools they are provided with.

If you want to vent your spleen then do it to the company who actually have some power to change things rather than the guard on your train who has done nothing wrong other than not knowing that he would end up working for a faceless company like First.

As far as I'm concerned all First great Western Staff are paid money to act as First representatives. Whilst I will not be abusive towards them I will put them under maximum pressure when their company fails to perform. That includes complaining loudly in public and if other passenger choose to join in that is up to them. if they hide in the back cab when their train is 40 minutes. i will knock loudly on the door until they come out to deal with the upset elderly passenger who has missed her connection.

Sorry First as an organisation is 100% responsible and that means all their employees.

 

[Tom C]

As far as I'm concerned all First great Western Staff are paid money to act as First representatives. Whilst I will not be abusive towards them I will put them under maximum pressure when their company fails to perform. That includes complaining loudly in public and if other passenger choose to join in that is up to them. if they hide in the back cab when their train is 40 minutes. i will knock loudly on the door until they come out to deal with the upset elderly passenger who has missed her connection.

Sorry First as an organisation is 100% responsible and that means all their employees.

But what has the guard got to do with the stored stock or the timetable changes or the state of the stock or the policy on connections or the timetable changes or anything other than dealing with that particular train and should it get delayed it generally isn't the fault of the guard either.

I think you will find most First employees (me included) will agree with you but what do you expect the guard to do and why should the guard take your frustration when they have no control over what is happening or what is happening in the future.

If you want to get anything changed then speak to the management of First Great Western, the DfT or your local user group because the guard has about as much power to get anything changed as any other ground staff and by venting your spleen at someone is totally pointless and rather spineless.

Then again if you want to make a complete fool of yourself by shouting and screaming on the train then why stop you. Just bear in mind that staff are not here to be your punching bag and all people have limits so if you go to far then the guard is within his rights to delay the train even further and get the BTP to remove you from the train.

Rail staff are there to help peoples and most will but why should they help people who have an appauling attitude like yours.

 

[Guinness]

Stuff the shareholders

The Shareholders will soon get rid of the Chairman / Managing Director of First Group and FGW.

Maybe they should stop feeding Virgin money and make them pay premiums too.

Then Virgin will come into the same situation. They already have huge capacity problems on some services and cutting subsidy will mean less trains = less passengers. Virgin don't have the luxury of cutting local services neither. The franchise last until 2011 and will get subsidies until 2011 unless the DfT do something. Not good for Britain's busiest Mainline.

 

[paul1609]

But what has the guard got to do with the stored stock or the timetable changes or the state of the stock or the policy on connections or the timetable changes or anything other than dealing with that particular train and should it get delayed it generally isn't the fault of the guard either.

I think you will find most First employees (me included) will agree with you but what do you expect the guard to do and why should the guard take your frustration when they have no control over what is happening or what is happening in the future.

If you want to get anything changed then speak to the management of First Great Western, the DfT or your local user group because the guard has about as much power to get anything changed as any other ground staff and by venting your spleen at someone is totally pointless and rather spineless.

Then again if you want to make a complete fool of yourself by shouting and screaming on the train then why stop you. Just bear in mind that staff are not here to be your punching bag and all people have limits so if you go to far then the guard is within his rights to delay the train even further and get the BTP to remove you from the train.

Rail staff are there to help peoples and most will but why should they help people who have an appauling attitude like yours.

I think its your attitude thats appauling you work for a company thats conning the taxpayer, conning the farepayer and its got nothing to do with me guv.

I made it clear that I wouldnt condone abusing staff or any illegal actions in my posts. There is a big difference between complaining loudly and shouting at someone.
I thought it was the conductor who is in charge of the train? If a company is deliberately conning someone you complain to the person in charge!

 

[Dennis]

FGW topped the bill on the local evening news again tonight; 4 out of the last five weekday nights. Tonight featured ex FGW units on ATW services; nice to see the Welsh getting some relief from their overcrowding problems.

The good news is that the FGW spokeman (can't remember his name) assured us things will settle down in the next few days. That's reassuring; I can look forward to a problem free weekend travelling with FGW and we won't need to hear any more whingeing about them.

 

[theblackwatch]

The good news is that the FGW spokeman (can't remember his name) assured us things will settle down in the next few days. That's reassuring; I can look forward to a problem free weekend travelling with FGW and we won't need to hear any more whingeing about them.

And pigs might fly......

 

[Nat the Ned]

Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...
A train operator company runs a franchise - in effect it is a contractor
delivering a specification laid down by the Government.

This is a well rehearsed management brainwashing speech... Oh guess where it came from?? OK, I accept what it says and understand FGW are not responsible for alot of this flack. However the situation sucks and First Group dont make things any better for themselves by other goings on.

This is my week at work, things I've seen happen or been directly involved in, I am in Cornwall so only a small % of FGW's services run down here, and I am one of 50 FGW guards in Cornwall, so am sure they all have similar tales. Just imagine you were a passenger or a First Group employee involved in these:

Monday - Day off :>

Tuesday: 19:05 Penzance to Exeter St.Davids. Cancelled prior to departure. Why? So the unit could be used as a resue unit to go and tow a 153 off the St.Ives line which had, wait for it..... run out of fuel. Last Gunnislake cancelled, no unit, theres one on Laira but only 8 ex Wessex drivers sign Laira so far and none of them are available.

Wednesday: High Speed Guards decide its not safe to stop at certain stations they have never stopped at before this week. Therefore 17:25 commuter HST from Plymouth to Cornwall fails to stop at Saltash and St.Germans.

Thursday: Following on from yesterday 06:43 Penzance to Paddington doesnt stop Menheniot, St.Germans, Saltash. 07:21 Plymouth to Penzance doesnt stop Devonport, Saltash, St.Germans, Menheniot, both trains whistling through platforms full of people. Virgin stop a Voyager at St.Germans to collect some of these on behalf of FGW. Meanwhile Cornwalls flagship 05:xx Penzance to Paddington 'Golden Hind' is cancelled at Plymouth and runs ECS to Paddington, no guard available. Also story on news about 6 girls being made to share a 4 seater taxi after there train is cancelled.

And I am supposed to be proud to work for this lot?? Hmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Nick W]

Rather than complaining to guards, you could try writing your MP.

My local MP, Tim Yeo, is already on to One Railways and Network Rail. His current transport project is finding out why our electrification is in such poor state.

Unfortunately he has no power against DfT who are raking in bribery, er premiums from ONE Railway. I will agree that it is getting better, but I stil feel the money could go elsewhere.

 

[Jim]

If you want to get anything changed then speak to the management of First Great Western, the DfT or your local user group because the guard has about as much power to get anything changed as any other ground staff and by venting your spleen at someone is totally pointless and rather spineless.

But when FGW managment get asked they normally come out with a load of B/S

 

[ntanswell]

0846 Cheltenham to Paddington cancelled this morning, a service which only runs every 2 hours

 

[Mojo]

Another 2 Severn Beach Line services cancelled this morning... - not as bad as last Thu when 4 trains were cancelled.

 

[Guinness]

Seems like FGW have a staff shortage or they're all out of place.

St Ives line is replaced by buses because of "Member of Train Crew Missing"

14:52 Paddington - Oxford
16:38 Oxford - Paddington
Both cancelled because of no crews

15:00 Plymouth - Paddington was cancelled because of Train Fault.

 

[devon_metro]

The Golden Hind?

I've seen on the fGW that so many services have staf shortages and as a result are cancelled. It's quite simply CRAP!

 

[1D53]

:angry7:

 

[Mojo]

The other day, they already had a list of cancellations for tomorrow morning...

Lots of cancellations on the Oxford service - wonder how many will switch to the (cheaper) Oxford Tube, and Oxford Espress?

 

[paul1609]

Rather than complaining to guards, you could try writing your MP.

My local MP, Tim Yeo, is already on to One Railways and Network Rail. His current transport project is finding out why our electrification is in such poor state.

Unfortunately he has no power against DfT who are raking in bribery, er premiums from ONE Railway. I will agree that it is getting better, but I stil feel the money could go elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing my MP should be doing is making sure that the Dft are imposing the maximum fines on First and suspending them from any further franchise bidding.

I do accept that the Dft is partially responsible for not specifying the number of seats to be provided on Cardiff- Portsmouth and probably other routes.

That aside I believe that the current mess is 100% First Great Westerns fault. It is clear that it does not have the resources to fulfill the contract that it bidded for and signed up for. The trains are not just crowded they in many cases arent being provided. First should be forced to provide the service specified even if that means it looses money on the great Western Franchise. Actions such as suspending them from further rail franchises and possibly bus contracts would have a huge impact on their share price.

As far as the train staff go i have experienced good customer service on First Great Western, a conductor "John" on a service from great Malvern a couple of weeks ago immediately springs to mind but I have to say that my experience is that customer service from the conductor on the cardiff- portsmouth line is non existant in the majority of cases when the train is turned back early or running extremely late.

 

[devon_metro]

I think, if you pay a lot for a train fare then if you don't get a seat then you have very right to cause a scene!

 

[Tom C]

I think its your attitude thats appauling you work for a company thats conning the taxpayer, conning the farepayer and its got nothing to do with me guv.

Wha??

I didn't start working for First, I started work for Thameslink and my franchise got taken over by First what do you expect me to do stop feeding my children and stop paying my bills just you doesn't like First? Wake up and smell the fresh air, it might engage your brain.

I don't like First! If you read threads from earlier in the year you will see that my biggest fear was First winning the Thameslink franchise.

However when you wake up from your daydream you will realise that people work for money and cannot change companies just like that because of enthusiasts views.

I thought it was the conductor who is in charge of the train? If a company is deliberately conning someone you complain to the person in charge!

Did that person diagram your train? did he agree on the stock to form that train? did he write the timetable? did he set the fare for the train? was he responsible for any delay to that train?.

No

The relevant First Great Western departments did that, the guard/conductor turned up for work, picked up his machine, got on his train and started to work it which is exactly what he is paid for. So what exactly did he deserve to get you coming up and making a scene on his train when you KNOW he has no power to do anything regarding your concerns other than giving you the relevant contact details for the people that can even though common sense would tell you to do that anyway.

I think, if you pay a lot for a train fare then if you don't get a seat then you have very right to cause a scene

What can the guard do?

Drag someone out of a seat so you can sit down? magically find more rolling stock to clamp on the back perhaps?

If it makes people feel good making someones life difficult when they know its no fault of that person and nothing will change as a result then they need to get a life as far as I am concerned.