Fare evader on Trip Advisor

[Bungle73]

I thought you guys would be interested. What can be done?

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTo..._at_a_later_stop-London_England.html#40888290

Post#28.

 

[Flamingo]

Probably not a lot, to be honest.

 

[Urban Gateline]

You could forward the link to East Coast, then they may be able to pass it onto the Guard of the train mentioned in the posts. It is a long shot however a tip-off is better than nothing

 

[Bungle73]

You could forward the link to East Coast, then they may be able to pass it onto the Guard of the train mentioned in the posts. It is a long shot however a tip-off is better than nothing

The post in question refers to Paddington, so that would probably be FGW.

 

[Ivo]

It can't possibly happen because I still have a valid ticket. Simple as that.

No. Just no.

Once a ticket has been used to its permitted validity (of one return journey in this instance) the ticket is no longer valid. Everyone should know that.

 

[richw]

You could forward the link to East Coast, then they may be able to pass it onto the Guard of the train mentioned in the posts. It is a long shot however a tip-off is better than nothing

Could do but considering the customer goes through paddington not sure what use east coast will be. Fgw maybe more useful, for which we have our very own flamingo!

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ivo]

Fgw maybe more useful, for which we have our very own flamingo!

Too bad he's already said this:

Probably not a lot, to be honest.

 

[extendedpaul]

It is far too easy to board and leave trains at Paddington without going through a barrier, especially from or to the Hammersmith and City Line. The ticket re-user is obviously in the wrong but I fear he is far from being the only one.

 

[benk1342]

Once a ticket has been used to its permitted validity (of one return journey in this instance) the ticket is no longer valid. Everyone should know that.

Unfortunately there are an awful lot of people who seem genuinely not to understand that something can be wrong/illegal even if you aren't going to get caught.

 

[Flamingo]

If he's going from an unbarriered (or unmanned) platform, to an unbarriered station, on a train that is either DOO (I don't know if DOO goes all the way to Oxford), or a train where the guard may not be getting all the way through the train for any one of a dozen reasons (not all of which are laziness), then there is always going to be a proportion that don't have a ticket.

Catching them (or even challenging them) can often cost more than it is worth it (to the bean-counters anyway).

 

[AlterEgo]

If he's going from an unbarriered (or unmanned) platform, to an unbarriered station, on a train that is either DOO (I don't know if DOO goes all the way to Oxford), or a train where the guard may not be getting all the way through the train for any one of a dozen reasons (not all of which are laziness), then there is always going to be a proportion that don't have a ticket.

Catching them (or even challenging them) can often cost more than it is worth it (to the bean-counters anyway).

There's nothing that can be done in these circumstances anyway - the evader appears to live in the USA and it's unlikely he could be tracked down.

 

[benk1342]

There's nothing that can be done in these circumstances anyway - the evader appears to live in the USA and it's unlikely he could be tracked down.

Well, his TripAdvisor profile says he lives in the US, but his post mentioned a journey from Paddington to his "home". I can't seem to find a fare between London Terminals and Warrensburg, Missouri!

Incidentally, the post has now been removed from TripAdvisor as inappropriate. I'm not the one that reported it (as I thought it should remain for the purposes of this discussion at least), but I am glad it has been taken down.

 

[TEW]

If he's going from an unbarriered (or unmanned) platform, to an unbarriered station, on a train that is either DOO (I don't know if DOO goes all the way to Oxford)

If it was a Turbo to Oxford it would be DOO. If the train was extended to/from the Cotswold line a guard may well have been on-board to/from Reading though.

 

[johnnychips]

Incidentally, the post has now been removed from TripAdvisor as inappropriate.

The original has been removed but the replies have not (I called him a thief and a criminal) and he's back!

'I'll still be using my valid ticket next Sunday, folks. And the Sunday after that if I can!!'

 

[EM2]

Probably not a lot, to be honest.

Could you suggest to the bosses that maybe one Sunday you have a ticket block on that line?

 

[Flamingo]

Not my patch, and there are people higher up the food chain than me who make those decisions. I'd rather stay off their radar, if you get my drift

 

[LexyBoy]

No. Just no.

Once a ticket has been used to its permitted validity (of one return journey in this instance) the ticket is no longer valid. Everyone should know that.

The problem of course being that the miscreant's ticket is indistinguishable from a true valid ticket.

Unless, of course, he's put it through a barrier on a previous trip, unaware that this is recorded on the magstrip. In which case he's likely to come a cropper sooner or later.

 

[DarloRich]

Lets be honest we all know of people who have either bought a ticket to a station beyond their ultimate destination or vice versa because it is cheaper. We all know people who have bought a ticket simply to get through a barrier. We all know people who have sat silently on a train while the gourd passes them and if challenged later in the journey produce a ticket that seems, to all intents and purposes, to be valid. How will the guard either remember that you got on at Y rather than X? We all know people who play the system or the routing guide to get the best advantage to them.

It is wrong and may lead to a criminal record to evade a fare or play the system; however it is very difficult to stop this kind of abuse. If you offer me a choice between this and simply bunking the fare I would take this one every time. At least here the railway gets SOME money.

 

[AlterEgo]

Lets be honest we all know of people who have either bought a ticket to a station beyond their ultimate destination or vice versa because it is cheaper.

That's perfectly legal.

We all know people who have bought a ticket simply to get through a barrier.

Perfectly legal unless you are trying to evade the fare. Absolutely fine to buy a ticket to get through a barrier to spot trains or whatever.

We all know people who play the system or the routing guide to get the best advantage to them.

Perfectly legal.

It is wrong and may lead to a criminal record to evade a fare or play the system;

It's only wrong, and illegal, to evade the fare. That's a specific kind of fraud. Using the Routeing Guide or break of journey allowances on a ticket is absolutely, 100% fine and it is most certainly not illegal.

 

[LexyBoy]

We all know people who play the system or the routing guide to get the best advantage to them.

It is wrong and may lead to a criminal record to evade a fare or play the system

I think that some on here would take issue with that!

Depriving the railways of revenue by fare evasion is illegal; doing the same by using loopholes to make a journey using a ticket(s) cheaper than the straightforward A-B fare is legal. Whether the latter is morally acceptable is up to the individual.

If you offer me a choice between this and simply bunking the fare I would take this one every time. At least here the railway gets SOME money.

It also makes it easier to prove intent to avoid the fare if they are caught and hence increasing the potential penalty / likelihood of going for prosecution.

 

[DarloRich]

@alterego,

I was trying to say that it is NOT fine to buy an advance from station X and board at Station Y becuase it is cheaper and then use the system or thier knowledge of the system to get around the rules with the intent of defrauding the TOC
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
@ Lexyboy

Sorry it is poorly worded. I mean people who set out to defraud the system RATHER than use a vaild combination of tickets to ensure thier journey has the lowest posssible cost.

 

[All Line Rover]

There is a difference between fare evasion (which is illegal) and fare avoidance (which is legal). It's just like tax evasion (which is illegal) and tax avoidance (which is legal).

When I'm using an unusual ticket (courtesy of the Routeing Guide) that the barriers at my destination won't accept, I buy a different ticket to get me through them. It's perfectly legal as I still travelled to that station with a valid ticket. I only do it to avoid having arguments with the staff.

 

[stut]

So is this like tax avoidance vs tax evasion? Will we have to refer to fare avoision for those not-so-clear-cut cases?

 

[All Line Rover]

So is this like tax avoidance vs tax evasion? Will we have to refer to fare avoision for those not-so-clear-cut cases?

The case on this thread is completely clear cut. It's fare evasion. It's fraud. It's illegal.

 

[DarloRich]

fare avoision - Kent Brockman -I love it!

 

[AlterEgo]

So is this like tax avoidance vs tax evasion?

Yes, that's a good analogy. The case in point with the chap at Paddington is fare evasion, which is a criminal offence.

Avoiding the fare (forgetting it's included in citations on summons 'intent to avoid the fare thereof' etc) through legal means is different.

 

[stut]

Oh, completely agree that this case is clear cut fraud.

 

[Clip]

Ahh there'll always be people like this. They'll get caught eventually and be on here or MSE bleating about it.

 

[Deerfold]

The original has been removed but the replies have not (I called him a thief and a criminal) and he's back!

'I'll still be using my valid ticket next Sunday, folks. And the Sunday after that if I can!!'

Can anyone let us know what the original post on TA said - it's a bit hard to follow this thread without it...

 

[DarloRich]

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTo..._at_a_later_stop-London_England.html#40888290

Hello,


We purchased advance fares on the 8:58 from Alnmouth to KGX on 8 June. Now it looks like we will stay in Newcastle the night before rather than up the coast. Can we just get on the same train when it calls at Newcastle at 9:27 on 8 June?

Cut of the text above