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Fare evasion concequences (child ticket & short fare)

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ajay2000

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Hi Guys,

I'm a Birmingham Uni student, a few weeks ago I got caught on the barriers by a ticket officer as I had bought a child ticket, the journey on the ticket was also shorter than what I actually travelled (Usual ticket is normally £6) . I've done this about 25 or so times in the past few months when commuting to uni (not realising it was an offence). The guy took down my details such as address/ name etc and said that the railway company would contact me soon. It's been 3 weeks and I haven't heard anything yet.

What is the consequences for this? I have never been fined before or had any previous convictions. I now realise that it was wrong and will never do it again. I'm a natural worrier and have had sleepless nights, can someone pls give me any advice? Will I go to jail for this or will it be a huge fine?
 
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WesternLancer

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Hi Guys,

I'm a Birmingham Uni student, a few weeks ago I got caught on the barriers by a ticket officer as I had bought a child ticket, the journey on the ticket was also shorter than what I actually travelled (Usual ticket is normally £6) . I've done this about 25 or so times in the past few months when commuting to uni (not realising it was an offence). The guy took down my details such as address/ name etc and said that the railway company would contact me soon. It's been 3 weeks and I haven't heard anything yet.

What is the consequences for this? I have never been fined before or had any previous convictions. I now realise that it was wrong and will never do it again. I'm a natural worrier and have had sleepless nights, can someone pls give me any advice? Will I go to jail for this or will it be a huge fine?
Hi - You won't go to jail and it won't be a huge fine, depending on what you call huge I guess. But have a look at a few other threads on here to see what will happen. You may need to wait up to 6 months but probably less to hear from them and you MUST respond to that - people here will help explain how.

Did you give them a correct address? If you move you need to arrange a postal divert because if yo do not respond to their letter it will almost guarantee going to court and you will get a criminal record in your absence.

I'd check out what help the Brum Uni Student Union welfare Office can give you - they will be able to give you good advice and practical help.
https://www.guildofstudents.com/support/guildadvice/who-we-are-guild-advice/

Basically you need to think about how to ask for an out of court settlement. Calculate what fares you have dodged via these 2 separate deceptions.

Also arm yourself with an up to date railcard and if appropriate a season ticket ASAP as that will help illustrate your intention not to do this again.
 

yorkie

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It depends on what legislation they use (see our Fares Guide for information) but the worst outcome would be a criminal record and a fine. Not jail.
 

mikeg

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From which station were you travelling? And to where? It sounds to be a clear cut offence under section 5 of the regulation of railways act 1889, which carries a criminal record and is usually punishable by a fine. They may depending on the circumstances use the railway byelaws which is also a fine but is non-recordable similar to most speeding or littering offences.

I'm amazed that you didn't consider it an offence, you're obviously reasonably bright to get into Birmingham Uni and it's quite clearly dishonest so one would expect it to be. Either way ignorance of law is no excuse.

Sit tight and wait for the letter. Another question is with which company did you travel?
 

ajay2000

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Leamington
Hi - You won't go to jail and it won't be a huge fine, depending on what you call huge I guess. But have a look at a few other threads on here to see what will happen. You may need to wait up to 6 months but probably less to hear from them and you MUST respond to that - people here will help explain how.

Did you give them a correct address? If you move you need to arrange a postal divert because if yo do not respond to their letter it will almost guarantee going to court and you will get a criminal record in your absence.

I'd check out what help the Brum Uni Student Union welfare Office can give you - they will be able to give you good advice and practical help.
https://www.guildofstudents.com/support/guildadvice/who-we-are-guild-advice/

Basically you need to think about how to ask for an out of court settlement. Calculate what fares you have dodged via these 2 separate deceptions.

Also arm yourself with an up to date railcard and if appropriate a season ticket ASAP as that will help illustrate your intention not to do this again.


Hi,

Thanks for replying. Yes, gave them my correct address. I think the fare difference overall of the tickets is between £200 and £300. Which I will pay back as I know what I did was wrong and will never happen again. But I am just concerned about the outcome of this as I hope it isn't a huge fine or jail
 

ajay2000

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Leamington
From which station were you travelling? And to where? It sounds to be a clear cut offence under section 5 of the regulation of railways act 1889, which carries a criminal record and is usually punishable by a fine. They may depending on the circumstances use the railway byelaws which is also a fine but is non-recordable similar to most speeding or littering offences.

I'm amazed that you didn't consider it an offence, you're obviously reasonably bright to get into Birmingham Uni and it's quite clearly dishonest so one would expect it to be. Either way ignorance of law is no excuse.

Sit tight and wait for the letter. Another question is with which company did you travel?


Hi,

Thanks for replying. I travelled from Warwick to Birmingham Moor Street but purchased a child ticket from Birmingham snowhill to Birmingham Moor Street (chiltern railways). I know I did wrong and will never happen again. But I'm just wondering what the outcome would possibly be? It has been playing on my mind for weeks, as I've seen articles about people going to jail etc. But I think that was cause they had previous convictions
 

Brissle Girl

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I'm amazed that you didn't consider it an offence, you're obviously reasonably bright to get into Birmingham Uni and it's quite clearly dishonest so one would expect it to be. Either way ignorance of law is no excuse.
Agree, this astonished me. I don’t think I have seen a case where someone admits to knowingly short faring and/or travelling on a child’s ticket and at the same time claims they didn’t know it was an offence. It doesn’t ring true to me, and won’t to an investigator either if given as an excuse.

Out of interest, you say you did this about 25 times when commuting. Since the start of the academic year you will presumably have made that journey many more times, so were you buying the appropriate ticket on other occasions? If so, do you have evidence for that, else you might find them coming after you for assumed fare evasion for a longer period?

As an aside. I believe the local transport network has special student tickets aligned with the academic year, which may possibly offer a more legitimate way to save on your commute, though that is probably academic (in the other sense) just at the moment.
 

ajay2000

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Agree, this astonished me. I don’t think I have seen a case where someone admits to knowingly short faring and/or travelling on a child’s ticket and at the same time claims they didn’t know it was an offence. It doesn’t ring true to me, and won’t to an investigator either if given as an excuse.

Out of interest, you say you did this about 25 times when commuting. Since the start of the academic year you will presumably have made that journey many more times, so were you buying the appropriate ticket on other occasions? If so, do you have evidence for that, else you might find them coming after you for assumed fare evasion for a longer period?

As an aside. I believe the local transport network has special student tickets aligned with the academic year, which may possibly offer a more legitimate way to save on your commute, though that is probably academic (in the other sense) just at the moment.

Hi, yes, all my other Uni fares have been appropriate. It has only been them 25 which weren't correct. I've travelled to places like Manchester and London too which were correct fares. It was just them 25 times to Birmingham.

I know what I did was wrong, but I just wanted clarification on what the outcome would be as it has been playing on mind recently and I haven't been able to eat properly
 

mikeg

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Hi, I'm guessing chiltern reported you. There's a good chance it will be dealt with by a company called transport investigations Ltd. Who are particularly difficult to settle out of court with, but it's not impossible. If it does go to court prepare yourself for a fine of the low to mid three figures including costs, surcharges and compensation.

If you are lucky enough to convince them to settle the matter, you will need to pay off the fare avoided plus the admin costs involved.
 

Gathursty

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You've told us about these 25 journeys but the RPI would have spotted you once (at least). Have you told the RPI/other official about these 24 other occasions when you short-fared?
 

ajay2000

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Location
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You've told us about these 25 journeys but the RPI would have spotted you once (at least). Have you told the RPI/other official about these 24 other occasions when you short-fared?

Hi, yes my tickets were bought via the trainline app and I was asked by that officer if it had happened before which I admitted too. However, that was all that was said at the time
 

WesternLancer

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Agree, this astonished me. I don’t think I have seen a case where someone admits to knowingly short faring and/or travelling on a child’s ticket and at the same time claims they didn’t know it was an offence. It doesn’t ring true to me, and won’t to an investigator either if given as an excuse.

Out of interest, you say you did this about 25 times when commuting. Since the start of the academic year you will presumably have made that journey many more times, so were you buying the appropriate ticket on other occasions? If so, do you have evidence for that, else you might find them coming after you for assumed fare evasion for a longer period?

As an aside. I believe the local transport network has special student tickets aligned with the academic year, which may possibly offer a more legitimate way to save on your commute, though that is probably academic (in the other sense) just at the moment.
Yes, I presumed the OP meant they did not realise it was a criminal offence as opposed to, presumably, thinking buying a ticket for full journey at the correct age rate was a sort of optional donation...
 

WesternLancer

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Hi, yes my tickets were bought via the trainline app and I was asked by that officer if it had happened before which I admitted too. However, that was all that was said at the time
The 'buy a snow hill to moor street' ticket is obv a common dodge well known by the railway staff and has been on here before. Your behaviour on this one is a clear case of deliberate fare evasion, so you will have got the fairly harsh comments that you have done. However, people on here give good advice and there is a respect for honesty if even after the event. You have been clear about the extent of your actions.

So when you get the letter from TIL or Chiltern or if you have more questions come back and post. In the mean time start planning to save up eg £500-£750 for the potential fine or settlement costs AND get in contact with the Guild of Students Advice Centre as per the link I posted above.

If you have particular careers in mind post University have a look at their professional body websites for any guidance on the impact a criminal record could possibly have, if you end up with one, as that may influence whether you want to seek legal advice - which the Guild of Students may be able to access for you at reduced / special rate (The Students Union at my local uni has a local law firm that gives initial free advice to students for example, IIRC).

One thing may be on your side in that with all courts superceded due to virus the Train companies may opt for swifter out of court settlements for straightforward cases like yours where the offender is confessing to the extent of their actions and seeking to resolve them and pay what they owe etc. Not guaranteed but may be the case esp if a 1st offence - or 1st time caught.
 

30907

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Yes, I presumed the OP meant they did not realise it was a criminal offence as opposed to, presumably, thinking buying a ticket for full journey at the correct age rate was a sort of optional donation...
More seriously, they might have thought they would get a PF if caught, which doesn't risk ending up in court.
 

BrianW

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Dear Ajay2000,
Have you spoken with the Students Union at Birmingham Uni, or at NUS HQ?
As a 'Russell Group' uni I would assume you are quite bright- what got into you to get into this situation ?
Hoping you have friends and/or family to share this with.
Maybe the Uni has people in Student Services/ Chaplaincy etc to help too.
Try to be gentle with yourself.
 

ajay2000

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Dear Ajay2000,
Have you spoken with the Students Union at Birmingham Uni, or at NUS HQ?
As a 'Russell Group' uni I would assume you are quite bright- what got into you to get into this situation ?
Hoping you have friends and/or family to share this with.
Maybe the Uni has people in Student Services/ Chaplaincy etc to help too.
Try to be gentle with yourself.

Hi Brian

I am currently doing this as we speak. I go to Birmingham City University (not University Of Birmingham as I may have confused a few people on this thread). I understand that it was wrong and there was no excuses and I should have just paid the normal fares instead of trying to save a few pounds.

I suffer from high anxiety, especially after reading articles online about people going to jail etc. However, I wasn't sure if it was because they had previous convictions or other offences.

Also, just want to say thank you for everyone's advice on this thread, much appreciated!
 

WesternLancer

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Hi Brian

I am currently doing this as we speak. I go to Birmingham City University (not University Of Birmingham as I may have confused a few people on this thread). I understand that it was wrong and there was no excuses and I should have just paid the normal fares instead of trying to save a few pounds.

I suffer from high anxiety, especially after reading articles online about people going to jail etc. However, I wasn't sure if it was because they had previous convictions or other offences.

Also, just want to say thank you for everyone's advice on this thread, much appreciated!
aha - hopefully Brum City Uni also has a welfare service, I'm sure they would do.

Obv if you suffer from anxiety, it's best to take steps to avoid situations that would make you anxious - eg travelling without a ticket so for the whole journey you are anxious about being caught....tho I must confess to not being a qualified psychologist so maybe that's not how it works.

Let's hope you get a fair hearing anyway.
 

6Gman

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Hi Brian

I am currently doing this as we speak. I go to Birmingham City University (not University Of Birmingham as I may have confused a few people on this thread). I understand that it was wrong and there was no excuses and I should have just paid the normal fares instead of trying to save a few pounds.

I suffer from high anxiety, especially after reading articles online about people going to jail etc. However, I wasn't sure if it was because they had previous convictions or other offences.

Also, just want to say thank you for everyone's advice on this thread, much appreciated!

You will not be going to jail.

At best you will be able to negotiate an out of court settlement - probably cost you mid-hundreds but will not go any further (though if you're caught doing anything similar in the future the book will be thrown at you).

At worst you will be convicted under the Regulation of Railways Act - fine etc. will be higher hundreds and it will appear on a DBS check and could cause you problems with certain employment until the offence is "spent" (for some careers it may never be "spent" if I understand correctly).

In the meantime all you can do is wait for them to contact you and then come back on here for further advice.
 

island

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You will not be going to jail.

At best you will be able to negotiate an out of court settlement - probably cost you mid-hundreds but will not go any further (though if you're caught doing anything similar in the future the book will be thrown at you).

At worst you will be convicted under the Regulation of Railways Act - fine etc. will be higher hundreds and it will appear on a DBS check and could cause you problems with certain employment until the offence is "spent" (for some careers it may never be "spent" if I understand correctly).

In the meantime all you can do is wait for them to contact you and then come back on here for further advice.
I politely beg to differ. It is possible that someone who has on dozens of occasions paid a short fare could be charged with fraud by false representation. It’s a remote possibility, but it could happen.

I suspect the most likely outcome however is an invitation to repay the avoided fares and a bit more to cover admin costs.
 

ajay2000

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I politely beg to differ. It is possible that someone who has on dozens of occasions paid a short fare could be charged with fraud by false representation. It’s a remote possibility, but it could happen.

I suspect the most likely outcome however is an invitation to repay the avoided fares and a bit more to cover admin costs.

Hi, what would be the punishment or worst outcome if they go with fraud by false representation in this case?
 

Brissle Girl

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I politely beg to differ. It is possible that someone who has on dozens of occasions paid a short fare could be charged with fraud by false representation. It’s a remote possibility, but it could happen.

I suspect the most likely outcome however is an invitation to repay the avoided fares and a bit more to cover admin costs.
There have in recent years been a couple of very high profile cases of senior professionals having being convicted of fare dodging over a prolonged period. Neither went to prison, so I think to raise any theoretical possibility of prison is unnecessary in the context of this case, even with the accompanying caveat.

(Both lost their jobs though IIRC, but given their positions and the magnitude of their offences that was an inevitable and just consequence of their actions.)
 

6Gman

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There have in recent years been a couple of very high profile cases of senior professionals having being convicted of fare dodging over a prolonged period. Neither went to prison, so I think to raise any theoretical possibility of prison is unnecessary in the context of this case, even with the accompanying caveat.

(Both lost their jobs though IIRC, but given their positions and the magnitude of their offences that was an inevitable and just consequence of their actions.)

I googled fraud by false representation. One case involved £875,000 in false benefit claims. Those involved only got suspended sentences.

£150 in dodged fares seems unlikely to be seen in the same light.

(And the CPS guidance specifically says it is NOT there to protect the commercial interests of companies.)

So yes, a theoretical option but so unlikely as to be off the bottom of the scale I would think.
 

WesternLancer

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There have in recent years been a couple of very high profile cases of senior professionals having being convicted of fare dodging over a prolonged period. Neither went to prison, so I think to raise any theoretical possibility of prison is unnecessary in the context of this case, even with the accompanying caveat.

(Both lost their jobs though IIRC, but given their positions and the magnitude of their offences that was an inevitable and just consequence of their actions.)
very much agree with this. It's not really helping the OP to suggest that a highly improbable thing might happen.
 
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