Fare Evasion: Poorly Enforced?

[JamesRowden]

Failing to pay a train fare is not theft. Theft is taking the property of someone with an intention to permanently deprive them of it.

You cannot steal electricity and you cannot steal something as nebulous as space on a train.

This is why abstraction of electricity and failure to pay the fare due are separate offences.

And I'd agree that TOCs not managing revenue protection properly cause problems. It is infuriating when one pays for a train ticket only to find all the ticket barriers are wide open and there are no on-train checks. It's hard not to feel done when the TOC make precisely zero effort to enforce payment. I always feel like a mug when I've paid £13 for my ticket from Euston to Hemel and half the train clearly haven't. It's not a huge jump from there to "bugger this, if they're not enforcing it and nobody else is paying then I'm not paying". It isn't right, but it is understandable.

So stealing a new car and intending to return it in 15 years would not be theft?

 

[ScotGG]

No-one checks your shopping trolley on the way out of a supermarket, would be easy to throw in a few extra items too. 99% of people wouldn't though, because that would be stealing.

Strange that if a railway company doesn't check tickets, some people seem to think that means it is okay not to pay.

I think a fair few would if the shop had no staff - only automatic tills, no security and possibly no CCTV

 

[JamesRowden]

What we call the crime does not really matter. What matters is that the criminal gains at the expense of the original owner.

 

[Envy123]

No-one checks your shopping trolley on the way out of a supermarket, would be easy to throw in a few extra items too. 99% of people wouldn't though, because that would be stealing.

Strange that if a railway company doesn't check tickets, some people seem to think that means it is okay not to pay.

You're forgetting the tagging of the items, CCTV and gates which detect stolen items.

 

[strawbrick]

Arctic Troll & I share the same stations and we also share the same sentiments re revenue collection.
The barriers at EUS are usually open in the early morning and mid / late evening, as are those at HML, where they are frequently open in the afternoon. Ticket inspections on the train are, by their infrequency, notable occurences. I cannot remember the last time I saw any travelling ticket inspectors on the train. Whenever there is an inspection there is more often than not at least one non-payer in the carriage, so possibly 2 to 8 per train.
A Standard single HML - EUS is £13.70 and a Return is £20.40, so how many non-payers per day would be required to pay the wages and on-costs?
All so very different from the days of Network South-East when the travelling inspectors made frequent appearances!

 

[sheff1]

Space on the train, and the extra energy/wear required to propel the train are stollen from the TOC. The space cannot be given back since it is in the past.

If you do not have a ticket, the TOC will give you stollen ? That seems unfair - I love stollen, but always have a ticket :cry:




Yes, I know this is nonsense, but no more so than the post quoted.

 

[JamesRowden]

Yes, I know this is nonsense, but no more so than the post quoted.

Ever heard of a concept called kinetic energy...............

 

[najaB]

Ever heard of a concept called kinetic energy...............

Shouldn't really explain the joke.

 

[JamesRowden]

Shouldn't really explain the joke.

I thought he was saying that he liked that which had been stolen.

 

[Antman]

Failing to pay a train fare is not theft. Theft is taking the property of someone with an intention to permanently deprive them of it.

You cannot steal electricity and you cannot steal something as nebulous as space on a train.

This is why abstraction of electricity and failure to pay the fare due are separate offences.

And I'd agree that TOCs not managing revenue protection properly cause problems. It is infuriating when one pays for a train ticket only to find all the ticket barriers are wide open and there are no on-train checks. It's hard not to feel done when the TOC make precisely zero effort to enforce payment. I always feel like a mug when I've paid £13 for my ticket from Euston to Hemel and half the train clearly haven't. It's not a huge jump from there to "bugger this, if they're not enforcing it and nobody else is paying then I'm not paying". It isn't right, but it is understandable.

Exactly and it does inevitably encourage an 'if you can't beat them join them attitude' from those who have paid.