Fare imbalances: Why are fares on the Midland Mainline between London and Kettering/Corby much more expensive than comparable routes?

[Camden]

Pre-pivatisaition, the MML had about 3 long distance trains every 2 hours most of the day.

The first Midland Main Line TOC made this 4 trains per hour. Now 5 and soon to be 6.

But sure, it's a "rip" and you get nothing for your money.

This isn't about long distance fares, but instead fares between London and Kettering. For London, that's only mid-distance, not long. It's outer-commuter.

However, as far back as 1985 in fact there were two trains an hour running between Leicester and London, most of which stopped at Kettering. They may not have been exactly clock face, but they existed. One could also get a half two in the morning train to London, and a midnight one back.

A mid-distance journey that used to be reasonable now costs a packet (plus Kettering having a lower northbound frequency than it had 30 years ago).

I assume you're not Mr M Mainline, which is the only reason I can think of why anyone would get so snarky about it (don't enlighten me, though), but I do know I know what I'm talking about

 

[Ianno87]

I assume you're not Mr M Mainline, which is the only reason I can think of why anyone would get so snarky about it (don't enlighten me, though), but I do know I know what I'm talking about

Please highlight what is factually wrong about my post?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Earlier, I listed the advance fares for about a month's time illustrating how the Northamptonshire fares are only slightly cheaper than from stations much further North. One curiosity is not the cheapest but the dearest fares. Again, looking 4 weeks in advance, to travel on the 13.41 from Corby the cheapest fare to London is £50; on the same train from Kettering (1351) , it's £49. It's not a one-off; I wonder why.

What might be mentioned in the context of the improvement in frequency when the National Express MML took over is that, as far as Northamptonshire went. the improved service was worked by 2-car dmu with high density seating. Because they originated at Matlock, Barnsley or Burton, with fares from these places only slightly higher than from Northamptonshire stations, they were likely to be so full on arrival that the best one might expect would be to be able to squeeze through the doors and wedge in the vestibule.

 

[Camden]

Please highlight what is factually wrong about my post?

I highlighted the bits which are wrong already - I quoted it in its entirety. I provided facts underneath the highlighted post

 

[Ianno87]

I highlighted the bits which are wrong already - I quoted it in its entirety. I provided facts underneath the highlighted post

No, you provided additional facts. My point stands that the privatised railway runs more long distance (i.e. north of Bedford) trains than BR did by a factor of 150% (soon to be 200%).

 

[Camden]

No, you provided additional facts. My point stands that the privatised railway runs more long distance (i.e. north of Bedford) trains than BR did by a factor of 150% (soon to be 200%).

Firstly, you're calling Kettering "long-distance", which it isn't. Secondly, given the post is about Kettering fares, and given the information I've already provided, your post is therefore either wrong or off-topic

 

[SargeNpton]

Firstly, you're calling Kettering "long-distance", which it isn't. Secondly, given the post is about Kettering fares, and given the information I've already provided, your post is therefore either wrong or off-topic

Kettering was never served by London suburban services and was outside the London & South East fares area, so when BR moved from Regions to Sectors it became an InterCity station instead of Network SouthEast. It's current fares structure for journeys to/from London is a consequence of that.

Kettering may not be that much further away from London than Northampton is, but the quirks of railway geography mean that the former IS a long-distance journey from London whilst the latter isn't

 

[Starmill]

Kettering was never served by London suburban services and was outside the London & South East fares area, so when BR moved from Regions to Sectors it became an InterCity station instead of Network SouthEast. It's current fares structure for journeys to/from London is a consequence of that.

Kettering may not be that much further away from London than Northampton is, but the quirks of railway geography mean that the former IS a long-distance journey from London whilst the latter isn't

But the claim being made by Ian07 is that what he calls intercity service has improved. You call Kettering to London Intercity, but the service ain't any better. So it doesn't really matter that much what names we're using does it? As has been established now countless times Kettering got much, much more price inflation than places in the former NSE area, but over time Kettering to London has as yet got neither much quicker nor more frequent.

 

[SargeNpton]

But the claim being made by Ian07 is that what he calls intercity service has improved. You call Kettering to London Intercity, but the service ain't any better. So it doesn't really matter that much what names we're using does it? As has been established now countless times Kettering got much, much more price inflation than places in the former NSE area, but over time Kettering to London has as yet got neither much quicker nor more frequent.

I am not making a point about the frequency of service that Kettering gets, nor the quality of the rolling stock, merely explaining why it's fares structure is as it is.

 

[Starmill]

I am not making a point about the frequency of service that Kettering gets, nor the quality of the rolling stock, merely explaining why it's fares structure is as it is.

You are, and I'm not sure anyone disagrees. But you quoted Camden, who is responding to Ianno87, who is making a quite different point to the one you were.

 

[Camden]

Kettering was never served by London suburban services and was outside the London & South East fares area, so when BR moved from Regions to Sectors it became an InterCity station instead of Network SouthEast. It's current fares structure for journeys to/from London is a consequence of that.

Kettering may not be that much further away from London than Northampton is, but the quirks of railway geography mean that the former IS a long-distance journey from London whilst the latter isn't

Ok, so the explanation - more understandable than wrong claims of any notably improved service - is that Kettering happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, served by the wrong type of train, at the time of privatisation.

At a glance, that explanation (not meaning it's OK) holds up in comparing to Peterborough. That is further north, but was lucky enough to have both IC and suburban services. Today that translates into £65 anytime return for a very reasonable 1 hour 15 minute journey, versus £118 anytime return for an hour.

Throwing Corby into the mix, which only got trains relatively recently, the only continued "justification" for including Kettering (and in turn it) into an IC inflated price grouping appears to be the different rolling stock.

When Corby, Kettering and Wellingborough move into Thameslink in all but name (and lacking direct cross-London connectivity), being served by only suburban EMUs, perhaps their fares can be revisited then?!... Including noting that Kettering's walk up off-peak fare of £79 is more expensive than Peterborough's peak Thameslink return. And only £13 cheaper than Manchester's walk-up off-peak IC return fare.

Given a train company tried to run the service with suburban DMUs once, and still increased the fares, I don't hold out much hope.

Taking out any notion that Kettering has been treated exceptionally, it in any case opens a wider question as to how it can be justified for IC routes, this one in particular, to have such runaway fares. I definitely can't see anything to defend the prices.