Fare Querey - Bolton/Horwich to Chorley

[trickyvegas]

I will be travelling to Chorley tomorrow 24/12 on the 12:16 service from Manchester Piccadilly to Chorley.

I have a County Card which covers me for rail travel in Greater Manchester.

Should I buy a ticket from Bolton to Chorley, which the service calls at, or Horwich Parkway which it passes through without stopping which is the boundary limit for Greater Manchester?


Thanks in advance

 

[yorkie]

If the County Card counts as a full season ticket then there is no requirement for the train to call. However if it is a PTE product then I believe the train must call for that combination to be valid, although I have heard that in the Manchester area that requirement hasn't been enforced. It may be best to check with First North Western or GMPTE.

 

[trickyvegas]

That's what I was wondering Yorkie, I've seen a similar question before but was relating to a rail season ticket rather than this type of pass. I normally try to get a stopping service when trying this but this particular service suits my travel plans for tomorrow which is Manchester Airport-Edinburgh train.

 

[yorkie]

Blackrod is the first station inside the GMPTE area, not Horwich (source).

A search of news://uk.railway reveals the following relevant quote:-

However, in practice, I've never been challenged for buying a return from Blackrod to Chorley/Preston/wherever and using my GMPTE CountyCard as far as Blackrod. I've done this a few times, and usually stated why I wanted that rather than a ticket from Piccadilly or wherever. With the staff on the front line, common sense usually prevails.

Incidentally, at Chorley there's a handwritten sign advising passengers to buy a normal season to Blackrod and a TrainCard/CountyCard/GMPTE season rather than a through season...

Is that sign still there I wonder?

 

[trickyvegas]

I'd not even considered Blackrod, so few services call there but the principle would be the same as me using Chroley.

 

[Lampshade]

Are you booked in advance? The 12:46 TPE calls at Horwich Parkway.

There's also the 12:19? (sometimes it's :22) from Manchester Victoria that calls at all stations including Blackrod and Adlington.

 

[trickyvegas]

I'm coming from Stalybridge, there's a service at 11.44 which arrives in Piccadilly about 9 minutes before at the same platform 14, which makes for a nice tidy connection.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Technically speaking the CountyCard is a PTE product and the train you are on must stop at the station where you transfer from one ticket to another. However I am aware that is not rigorously enforced, especially on the North West side. This is especially the case when travelling to say Preston or Blackpool as the fare from Blackrod to Blackpool is the same as from Bolton to Blackpool, so it doesn't really matter as the correct fare has been paid. For shorter journeys however to say Chorley, if the fare from Blackrod was different to that from Bolton I personally would be inclined to insist on you having a Bolton ticket.

There is much confusion in that respect, not least as ticket offices do tell people it is quite ok (which technically it isn't!). It would be more helpful if the information given by the ticket offices is clearer.

In West Yorkshire, Metro produces a handy leaflet "Cross Boundary Bus & Train Travel" which stipulates all the rules very clearly, and even gives timetables and guidelines to different trains and routes where you need what combination of tickets. This is very helpful. Ticket offices over that side seem more interested in selling the correct ticket, and the instances of people using a Metro card say to Micklefield, then having a Micklefield to York ticket are extremely rare on our TPE trains. The instances of folk having GMPTE tickets and then a variety of add ons from stations we never even stop at are far higher though.

I suspect that over time the rather more laxydasical attitude to Revenue Protection on the western side (both Northern & TPE and FNW before that) has allowed what in theory is incorrect to become impressed in folklore as "being all right as no one bothers".

 

[trickyvegas]

Thanks for that KWVR45, I'll get my ticket from Bolton in that case I prefer to play it by the rules.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The ticket from Blackrod is significantly cheaper than from Bolton, nearly half price infact.

 

[bluenoxid]

If the County Card counts as a full season ticket then there is no requirement for the train to call. However if it is a PTE product then I believe the train must call for that combination to be valid, although I have heard that in the Manchester area that requirement hasn't been enforced. It may be best to check with First North Western or GMPTE.

Poor considering that Northern has operated the services for five years now

 

[yorkie]

Yes it is of course Northern. I was reading articles from a few years back and forgot to change the name in what I posted!

 

[trickyvegas]

The service had a conductor and RPI in tandem, so that advice has probably saved me the price of a second ticket. Thanks.

Chap on board was trying to use a Croydon-Edinburgh day single that had been stamped to Manchester on 17/24. Oops.

 

[yorkie]

The service had a conductor and RPI in tandem, so that advice has probably saved me the price of a second ticket. Thanks.

You mean an excess? probably not as they're very relaxed over on the western side. It's different in Yorkshire as kvwr45 has said.

Chap on board was trying to use a Croydon-Edinburgh day single that had been stamped to Manchester on 17/24. Oops.

I can see why there is confusion. There is no 'Day' single, however Anytime Singles are no longer valid for 1 month and are now only valid for 1 day.

If a single is required with a break at Manchester then the solution is to buy a SSR from Edinburgh to Croydon and discard the outward portion and use the return. This is cheaper and valid for 1 months.

Bonkers? Yes, but that's the railway!

 

[trickyvegas]

You mean an excess? probably not as they're very relaxed over on the western side. It's different in Yorkshire as kvwr45 has said.

Is that the difference between what I had paid and what I should have paid, still getting to grips with the terminology as a relative newcomer here?

I can see why there is confusion. There is no 'Day' single, however Anytime Singles are no longer valid for 1 month and are now only valid for 1 day.

If a single is required with a break at Manchester then the solution is to buy a SSR from Edinburgh to Croydon and discard the outward portion and use the return. This is cheaper and valid for 1 months.

Bonkers? Yes, but that's the railway!

He claimed that the ticket office who sold him the ticket told him he could use his ticket with a break, the conductor was very disbelieving - they were taking his address details as he said he had no money for a new ticket, would that be a penalty fare?

 

[yorkie]

Is that the difference between what I had paid and what I should have paid, still getting to grips with the terminology as a relative newcomer here?

Yes.

He claimed that the ticket office who sold him the ticket told him he could use his ticket with a break, the conductor was very disbelieving - they were taking his address details as he said he had no money for a new ticket, would that be a penalty fare?

Unpaid Fare Notice. They'd probably be charging him £51.50 for the Anytime Single from Manchester to Edinburgh.

Unfortunately if someone asked for a ticket from Canterbury to Edinburgh with a break at Manchester it is unlikely they'd be offered the cheapest option of a return and discarding the outward, although given that they are not meant to offer combinations where a through fare exists, maybe they would, but I am unsure if they are meant to offer the option of using only the return portion of a return ticket instead of a single either.

Maybe the person selling the ticket thought a SOS (formerly Standard Open Single) was valid for a month, as the "O" (Open) implies it, as they used to be valid for a month.

There is no difference in validity between a SOS (Anytime Single) and a SDS (Anytime Day Single) and the differences are purely historical.