Fares check rule and Routed tickets

[b0b]

Following on for my GRV-EPH example.

The London routeing point passes for "NOT HS1" tickets, but does not pass for "Any Permitted".

The routeing guide is silent on whether a routed fare is allowed to be compared for checking routeing points. So I'm assuming that I can use London Group.

So when try and calculate the actual routes valid for a GRV-EPH ticket, do I use the fact I know that London Group only passes for "NOT HS1", or is the only requirement is the route on the actual ticket?

ie. say the actual ticket I want to buy doesn't have a NOT HS1 restriction, can I use HS1 even though it fails the fare check rule?

Does that make any sense?


followup question I just thought of: right now I'm comparing both the ticket code and the route code, but is it ok to fares check with different route codes?

example: if the station to station ticket is 'any permitted', but the routeing point to destination is routed, but is cheaper, does that pass the fares check rule? what if there is no 'any permitted' fare from the routeing point to destination?

 

[yorkie]

Can you quote some real examples with fares, routeing etc provided?

 

[b0b]

Can you quote some real examples with fares, routeing etc provided?

The GRV-EPH we've discussed before, seems to be a candidate:

the London routeing point passes a fares check for route 00131 "+NOT VALID ON HS1" but does not pass a fares check for the 00000 "+ANY PERMITTED".

However; if you say that because the 00131 fare passes the fare check, London Group is a valid routeing point; then

is a 7DS GRV-EPH 00000 +ANY PERMITTED valid on HS1 as its cheaper than the 00131 +NOT VALID ON HS1?

I know this is probably a fares anomaly however.


some of the other ideas are more hypothetical - i'm trying to determine whether the route of routed tickets is considered when determining routeing points.

so taking the above case again;

London Group passes the fares check for tickets routed 00131, but not 00000. So does that imply that the valid routes for any ticket between the two points takes on the 00131 route because that makes London Group a valid routeing point?

one sec before you answer that.... I might need to tweak which route code is passing the fare check, one sec.

 

[yorkie]

Any Permitted has (for some unknown, stupid, inexcusable, inexplicable reason ) been replaced with Plus High Speed on certain flows, so I guess you have to compare the GRV - EPH "+Any Permitted" with the "Plus High Speed" if you are doing the fare check to determine appropriate RPs. But do you have to do this in this case? if it has the + it is automatically valid via London.

Anyway let's assume it fails the fares check rule for London Group...

It passes the fares check for Denmark Hill and Herne Hill.

So we can use either of those.

They both say travel via London is permitted.

So there is no issue. There is no need for London to be used as a RP for Elephant & Castle. Denmark Hill or Herne Hil can be used instead.

 

[b0b]

All mapped routes require a fares check

Testing Fares Check
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SDS, _routeCode=00000, _fare=1240] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SDS, _routeCode=00000, _fare=1240] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: Gravesend (GRV) to Station: Denmark Hill (DMK)
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SDS, _routeCode=00700, _fare=720] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SDS, _routeCode=00700, _fare=720] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: Gravesend (GRV) to Station: Herne Hill (HNH)
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SDS, _routeCode=00130, _fare=930] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SDS, _routeCode=00130, _fare=970] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: Gravesend (GRV) to Station: London Waterloo (WAT)
 result:FaresCheckChecker@276dbf8 [a=Station: Gravesend, b=Station: Elephant & Castle, allowedOrigins=[Routeing Point: Gravesend], allowedDests=[Routeing Point: Denmark Hill, Routeing Point: Herne Hill, Routeing Point: London Group], disallowedOrigins=[], disallowedDests=[]]


Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Gravesend to Routeing Point: Denmark Hill
  [Map: NK]
  [Map: NK, Map: ††, Map: SL]
    [Routeing Point: London Group, Routeing Point: London Group]
  [Map: HK, Map: ††, Map: SL]
    [Routeing Point: London Group, Routeing Point: London Group]

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Gravesend to Routeing Point: London Group
  [Map: NK]
  [Map: HK]

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Gravesend to Routeing Point: Herne Hill
  [Map: NK, Map: ††, Map: SL]
    [Routeing Point: London Group, Routeing Point: London Group]
  [Map: HK, Map: ††, Map: SL]
    [Routeing Point: London Group, Routeing Point: London Group]
consult the routeing guide

it is route code 00130
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They both say travel via London is permitted.

For some reason I believed you said that if a routeing point fails a fares check, then you cannot travel via it. I think the NRG says the same thing...

Actually, Example A in the examples shows what I thought was the restriction:

look up the permitted routes between Gloucester Group and Craven Arms and between Newport and Craven Arms on the yellow pages. When tracing these routes on the maps you must avoid Shrewsbury because it is not an appropriate routeing point for this journey. Any routes you can trace successfully on the maps between Gloucester Group and Craven Arms or Newport and Craven Arms avoiding Shrewsbury and without doubling back are permitted routes.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here's another example:

Station: East Midlands Parkway -> Station: Normanton

All mapped routes require a fares check

Testing Fares Check
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SOS, _routeCode=00079, _fare=3200] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SOS, _routeCode=00079, _fare=3650] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: Attenborough (ATB) to Station: Normanton (NOR)
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SVS, _routeCode=00079, _fare=2900] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SVS, _routeCode=00079, _fare=2900] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: Barrow upon Soar (BWS) to Station: Normanton (NOR)
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SVS, _routeCode=00076, _fare=5760] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SVS, _routeCode=00076, _fare=5760] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: East Midlands Parkway (EMD) to Station: Pontefract Baghill (PFR)
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SVS, _routeCode=00076, _fare=5760] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SVS, _routeCode=00076, _fare=5760] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: East Midlands Parkway (EMD) to Station: Leeds (LDS)
        compared fare Fare: [_fareCode=SOS, _routeCode=00076, _fare=6300] with station fare Fare: [_fareCode=SOS, _routeCode=00076, _fare=6300] passes
          passed fare check due to fare of Station: East Midlands Parkway (EMD) to Station: Wakefield Westgate (WKF)
 result:FaresCheckChecker@183e1ad [a=Station: East Midlands Parkway, b=Station: Normanton, allowedOrigins=[Routeing Point: Nottingham Group, Routeing Point: Loughborough Group], allowedDests=[Routeing Point: Pontefract Group, Routeing Point: Leeds Group, Routeing Point: Wakefield Group], disallowedOrigins=[Routeing Point: Derby Group, Routeing Point: Chesterfield], disallowedDests=[]]


Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Loughborough Group to Routeing Point: Pontefract Group
  [Map: SY]

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Nottingham Group to Routeing Point: Pontefract Group
  [Map: SY]

Routeing Point: Derby Group to Routeing Point: Leeds Group is disallowed by fares check rule

Routeing Point: Chesterfield to Routeing Point: Leeds Group is disallowed by fares check rule

Routeing Point: Chesterfield to Routeing Point: Wakefield Group is disallowed by fares check rule

Routeing Point: Derby Group to Routeing Point: Pontefract Group is disallowed by fares check rule

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Loughborough Group to Routeing Point: Wakefield Group
  [Map: SY]

Routeing Point: Chesterfield to Routeing Point: Pontefract Group is disallowed by fares check rule

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Nottingham Group to Routeing Point: Leeds Group
  [Map: SY]
  [Map: ER, Map: LS]
    [Routeing Point: Leeds Group]
    [Routeing Point: York]
    [Routeing Point: Selby]
    [Routeing Point: Scarborough Group]
  [Map: DG, Map: ER]
    [Routeing Point: Nottingham Group]
    [Routeing Point: Lincoln]
    [Routeing Point: Barnetby]
    [Routeing Point: Newark Group]
  [Map: DG, Map: ER, Map: LS]
    [Routeing Point: Nottingham Group, Routeing Point: York]
    [Routeing Point: Nottingham Group, Routeing Point: Selby]
    [Routeing Point: Nottingham Group, Routeing Point: Scarborough Group]
    [Routeing Point: Lincoln, Routeing Point: York]
    [Routeing Point: Lincoln, Routeing Point: Selby]
    [Routeing Point: Lincoln, Routeing Point: Scarborough Group]
    [Routeing Point: Barnetby, Routeing Point: York]
    [Routeing Point: Barnetby, Routeing Point: Selby]
    [Routeing Point: Barnetby, Routeing Point: Scarborough Group]
    [Routeing Point: Newark Group, Routeing Point: York]
    [Routeing Point: Newark Group, Routeing Point: Selby]
    [Routeing Point: Newark Group, Routeing Point: Scarborough Group]
  [Map: ER]

Routeing Point: Derby Group to Routeing Point: Wakefield Group is disallowed by fares check rule

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Nottingham Group to Routeing Point: Wakefield Group
  [Map: SY]
  [Map: DG, Map: ER]
    [Routeing Point: Nottingham Group]
    [Routeing Point: Lincoln]
    [Routeing Point: Barnetby]
    [Routeing Point: Newark Group]
  [Map: ER]

Additional route allowed by fares check via Routeing Point: Loughborough Group to Routeing Point: Leeds Group
  [Map: SY]

Here there are no "ANY PERMITTED" flows, they are either routed 00076 PETERBOROUGH or 00079 SHEFFIELD.

If you pass a fares check 00076 PETERBOROUGH, does that compel you to buy a ticket via PETERBOROUGH ?


Also can I compare one ticket thats route 00076 with another thats route 00079 to pass the fares check? the NRG says they need to be the same ticket type, but doesn't say same route.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....For some reason I believed you said that if a routeing point fails a fares check, then you cannot travel via it. I think the NRG says the same thing....

The fares check rule applies only when finding appropriate routeing points, it has no relevance to the maps, the example on page F5 is wrong.