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Fares for TfW Marches services and opportunities for 1st class upgrades

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Bletchleyite

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ex-lner-and-grand-central-mark-4-sets-for-tfw.182406/
If they keep the buffets as they were under LNER, it'll be more likely 3.75 standard class. But, more seats overall. Plus, there are a chunk of people who'll travel in 1st.

The 197s will be 4.5 standard AIUI

It'll be marked improvement and whilst I'd expect it it to feel full during peak hours and busy weekends, standing should be minimal, unlike now

I do find it strange they have gone for a full 1st rather than a buffet 1st - maybe they'll offer good value upgrades?
 
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tiptoptaff

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I do find it strange they have gone for a full 1st rather than a buffet 1st - maybe they'll offer good value upgrades?
As do I. But also, I feel like actually they could mostly fill a full coach of 1st between Cardiff and Manchester if priced right. They've noticed (perhaps giving them more credit than deserved) the numbers that book Cardiff to Manchester 1st classes and go via Bristol Parkway
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
I do find it strange they have gone for a full 1st rather than a buffet 1st - maybe they'll offer good value upgrades?

As do I. But also, I feel like actually they could mostly fill a full coach of 1st between Cardiff and Manchester if priced right. They've noticed (perhaps giving them more credit than deserved) the numbers that book Cardiff to Manchester 1st classes and go via Bristol Parkway

Having had a quick eyeball at the BR Fares website, it seems that TfW are the fare setter for the Route 01000 (is that the code for Any Permitted?), which has both Standard and First Class fares. Was this one formerly set by InterCity in the days of British Rail?

Also, there are the present day Crosscountry Advances, with there being two sets of fares - AP XC Only (First Class) and AP XC CNM (Standard Class), which implies both do the same thing as the only possible route using XC is via Cheltenham.

I don't know if it would be an idea for Great British Railways to transfer the Route 01000 fare to InterCity Crosscountry, with TfW/Sennedd setting their own "Via Craven Arms" Standard and First Class fares.
 

tiptoptaff

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Having had a quick eyeball at the BR Fares website, it seems that TfW are the fare setter for the Route 01000 (is that the code for Any Permitted?), which has both Standard and First Class fares. Was this one formerly set by InterCity in the days of British Rail?

Also, there are the present day Crosscountry Advances, with there being two sets of fares - AP XC Only (First Class) and AP XC CNM (Standard Class), which implies both do the same thing as the only possible route using XC is via Cheltenham.

I don't know if it would be an idea for Great British Railways to transfer the Route 01000 fare to InterCity Crosscountry, with TfW/Sennedd setting their own "Via Craven Arms" Standard and First Class fares.
Would likely have been set by Regional Railways, they ran the Cardiff/Manchesters after sectorisation
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Having had a quick eyeball at the BR Fares website, it seems that TfW are the fare setter for the Route 01000 (is that the code for Any Permitted?), which has both Standard and First Class fares. Was this one formerly set by InterCity in the days of British Rail?
Intercity lost interest in the Marches route in 1970 when WCML-origin services to South Wales/West of England via the Severn Tunnel were merged with those from the North East via Birmingham New St - which became Cross Country.
After that it was a secondary regional route, split between 2/3 BR Regions, and has latterly served South Wales only, and not Bristol/South West.
At the lowest ebb of BR, Marches trains terminated at Crewe with connections further north, even to Manchester.
Through trains to Manchester and Liverpool gradually returned, and later were concentrated on Manchester.

On the South-North Wales route via the Marches, there were no through BR services on the route, a change at Crewe was needed.
Wales & West did introduce a single Cardiff-Crewe-Llandudno-Holyhead service in the 90s.
Fares were previously set, often to different rules, by RR North West, Central, and Wales & West.
That changed when ATW began to run all local services in Wales from 2003, though I think you can still see some of the "joins" of the previous setup.

At privatisation, from what I remember the XC (Any Permitted) fares were the only through fares to Manchester/Liverpool, valid on any route including the Marches.
Dedicated Marches fares are a relatively recent thing.
There are still "Intercity" fares on the Marches, eg Shrewsbury-Reading via Newport, set by GWR and significantly better value than the TfW fares on the route.
I've not checked, but there are also probably Avanti fares from Marches stations to northern destinations on the WCML (where the TfW mileage is less that VT's).
 
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