• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Farnborough North and Frimley Green crossing replacements.

iharding

Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
20
It might have been more appropriate (and much less unsightly) to add warning lights to the pre-existing crossing, since that seems to be an acceptable solution at the much busier crossing further along the same line at Farnborough North.

mods note - split from here.

Farnborough North crossing, and the Frimley Green crossing at the other end of the footpath, replacement is in planning: https://stuartblack.uk/wp-content/u...-and-Hatches-Consultation-Presentation-1-.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

WesternBiker

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2020
Messages
666
Location
Farnborough

WesternBiker

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2020
Messages
666
Location
Farnborough
IMG_8319.jpeg

Good progress on installing the new footbridge at Farnborough North. This is the view from the south end by the current road crossing. Apologies for the slight distortion of the image which makes the bridge section looked curved, but you get the idea.

I have to say I like the olive paint on the steel sections, which complements the brick towers.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,582
Location
Hampshire
View attachment 164600

Good progress on installing the new footbridge at Farnborough North. This is the view from the south end by the current road crossing. Apologies for the slight distortion of the image which makes the bridge section looked curved, but you get the idea.

I have to say I like the olive paint on the steel sections, which complements the brick towers.
I’m surprised that a place like this has glass windows though! Although this side of Farnborough is perhaps a little less prone to Vandalism.
 

WesternBiker

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2020
Messages
666
Location
Farnborough
I’m surprised that a place like this has glass windows though! Although this side of Farnborough is perhaps a little less prone to Vandalism.
It's quite a leafy and prosperous area and the footpath goes to Frimley Green, which is similarly leafy. There's a decent footfall during the day, but of course it's dark evenings that are likely to be the problem.
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
2,252
Location
UK
It’s interesting that replacing the crossing at Farnborough North seems to have been a lower priority than that at Gomshall? It’s a much busier station, with heavy use by college students during term time.
Possibly cost and/or access reasons? Gomshall has no lifts, just the standard very lengthy ramped access, which presumably will have been significantly cheaper and easier to install, and of course there was ample space in which to construct it. I believe there was some purchase of adjacent land required for the Farnborough installation, so that may have played a part also.
 

WesternBiker

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2020
Messages
666
Location
Farnborough
Possibly cost and/or access reasons? Gomshall has no lifts, just the standard very lengthy ramped access, which presumably will have been significantly cheaper and easier to install, and of course there was ample space in which to construct it. I believe there was some purchase of adjacent land required for the Farnborough installation, so that may have played a part also.
That's true - I hadn't thought about the process of acquiring the land.

Earlier this year there was also an update on the proposal to replaces the Hatches Level crossing, which crosses the Ash Vale to Frimley line about 650m further east on the same footpath. The original proposal was a lengthy ramped bridge at Spencer Close, but there was a lot of well-organised local opposition. The current proposal is miniature lights, apparently, according to the local Conservative councillors' website (see https://www.surreyheathconservatives.org.uk/news/hatches-level-crossing-triumph-community-voice-and-reason).

The Hatches Level Crossing: A Triumph for Community Voice and Reason​

Following a period of intense public consultation and community engagement, Network Rail has announced a significant change in plans for The Hatches level crossing in Frimley Green.​

The previous plan for a footbridge at Spencer Close has been scrapped, instead, a Miniature Stop Light system will be installed, prioritising both safety and the local community's preferences.

Commenting, Cllr Paul Deach, Surrey County Councillor for Mytchett, Frimley Green & Deepcut, said:

"Good news for Mytchett, Frimley Green, and Deepcut residents! Network Rail has heard our community's voice loud and clear. After extensive consultations, the proposed footbridge at Spencer Close is no longer going forward. Instead, a more community-friendly Miniature Stop Light system will be installed to ensure safety at The Hatches crossing.

"This decision reflects the power of our community's involvement and the importance of open dialogue. A huge thank you to everyone who reached out to me with concerns and suggestions. Your engagement has been invaluable.

"Special thanks to former Frimley Green Borough Councillor Stuart Black, David Natolie, and Surrey Heath MP Michael Gove for their relentless effort and support. Their work engaging with Network Rail has been instrumental in reaching a solution that respects both the safety and the sentiments of our residents."

Pictured, local community activist David Natolie and Stuart Black, former Surrey Heath Borough Councillor for Frimley Green
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,858
Location
Salford Quays, Manchester
View attachment 164600

Good progress on installing the new footbridge at Farnborough North. This is the view from the south end by the current road crossing. Apologies for the slight distortion of the image which makes the bridge section looked curved, but you get the idea.

I have to say I like the olive paint on the steel sections, which complements the brick towers.
Good gosh, I used to use that station almost weekly back around 2018ish. Its unrecognisable now!
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
8,492
It’s a shame it makes that route less convenient for cyclists.
From the CGI view it looked risky - kids will ride up the kerb onto the northbound platform and then turn along it to get to the footbridge.
In ASB terms I reckon I would prefer a more open design if I had to use it at night.
 

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,444
It's quite a leafy and prosperous area and the footpath goes to Frimley Green, which is similarly leafy. There's a decent footfall during the day, but of course it's dark evenings that are likely to be the problem.

I frequently use Farnborough North late in the evening and there's never been the slightest issue.
 

LUYMun

Member
Joined
15 Jul 2018
Messages
1,068
Location
Cancelled
Earlier this year there was also an update on the proposal to replaces the Hatches Level crossing, which crosses the Ash Vale to Frimley line about 650m further east on the same footpath. The original proposal was a lengthy ramped bridge at Spencer Close, but there was a lot of well-organised local opposition. The current proposal is miniature lights, apparently, according to the local Conservative councillors' website
Sadly the Frimley Green lot just don’t like having anything in their backyard (NIMBY). Usual complaints of “out of keeping with the local area” here and there without thinking of benefit to pedestrians.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
4,385
Sadly the Frimley Green lot just don’t like having anything in their backyard (NIMBY). Usual complaints of “out of keeping with the local area” here and there without thinking of benefit to pedestrians.
Looking at the location a long Gomshall-style footbridge, as well as being an eyesore, would have overlooked the previously private back gardens of the houses in several roads east of the line. I imagine most householders would object to that, with good reason.

The benefit to pedestrians could be moot too, depending the layout proposed. At Gomshall the route over the footbridge is more convoluted than the previous barrow crossing, and much longer and more convoluted for those who have to use the ramps.
 

LUYMun

Member
Joined
15 Jul 2018
Messages
1,068
Location
Cancelled
Looking at the location a long Gomshall-style footbridge, as well as being an eyesore, would have overlooked the previously private back gardens of the houses in several roads east of the line. I imagine most householders would object to that, with good reason.

The benefit to pedestrians could be moot too, depending the layout proposed. At Gomshall the route over the footbridge is more convoluted than the previous barrow crossing, and much longer and more convoluted for those who have to use the ramps.
Hardly, given that the trees overlook the site to the west as well as from the end of Spencers Close, as seen in the attached screenshot of the video on Network Rail's website so the view of the footbridge would be obscured. Furthermore, the walls of most modern footbridges would be no shorter than 2m tall, so pedestrians wouldn't be able to peer onto residential properties anyway. If that's still unsatisfactory with residents then that is a 'you problem'.

The comparison with Gomshall is inadequate to say the least given that footbridge is at a remote station, when the one we're talking about adjoins a very busy footway through Frimley Lakes connecting Frimley Green and Farnborough centres.
1725392452111.png
 
Last edited:

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
4,385
Hardly, given that the trees overlook the site to the west as well as from the end of Spencers Close, as seen in the attached screenshot of the video on Network Rail's website so the view of the footbridge would be obscured. Furthermore, the walls of most modern footbridges would be no shorter than 2m tall, so pedestrians wouldn't be able to peer onto residential properties anyway. If that's still unsatisfactory with residents then that is a 'you problem'.

The comparison with Gomshall is inadequate to say the least given that footbridge is at a remote station, when the one we're talking about adjoins a very busy footway through Frimley Lakes connecting Frimley Green and Farnborough centres.
The Gomshall bridge, which I'm just using as an example of a modern ramped bridge, has open railings to the ramps (and they are less than 2m high):
(image of footbridge ramps)

The path at Farnborough being much busier (agreed) means that more pedestrians have to have their route lengthened by having to use such a layout.

But fortunately it's not happening anyway.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,669
Location
Gomshall, Surrey
View attachment 164600

Good progress on installing the new footbridge at Farnborough North. This is the view from the south end by the current road crossing. Apologies for the slight distortion of the image which makes the bridge section looked curved, but you get the idea.

I have to say I like the olive paint on the steel sections, which complements the brick towers.
As these things go, yes, it is mellow and not too obtrusive. Another of the railway's quirks will vanish with the crossing - the little attendant's hut. The Gomshall bridge is a horrible eyesore and completely OTT (pun-ish) for the 'problem' it addressed. An interlocked crossing gate system should have been used.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
8,492
Hardly, given that the trees overlook the site to the west as well as from the end of Spencers Close, as seen in the attached screenshot of the video on Network Rail's website so the view of the footbridge would be obscured. Furthermore, the walls of most modern footbridges would be no shorter than 2m tall, so pedestrians wouldn't be able to peer onto residential properties anyway. If that's still unsatisfactory with residents then that is a 'you problem'.

The comparison with Gomshall is inadequate to say the least given that footbridge is at a remote station, when the one we're talking about adjoins a very busy footway through Frimley Lakes connecting Frimley Green and Farnborough centres.
View attachment 164843
funny how they always do their renders showing leafy trees and not bare wintertime ones.
Pedestrians would surely prefer the nice direct, flat, crossing rather than being treated like a child and sent a long way round up and down loads of steps
 

LUYMun

Member
Joined
15 Jul 2018
Messages
1,068
Location
Cancelled
The path at Farnborough being much busier (agreed) means that more pedestrians have to have their route lengthened by having to use such a layout.
Anecdotally speaking, a lot of foot/cycle traffic are between Frimley Green's village centre and the Farnborough suburbs or town centre, alongside leisurely travellers and fishers through/to the lake, so their paths aren't hugely interrupted. It may not be the most direct but it's the safest, much rather railway staff's designated footpaths to access depots, sidings or facilities from stations or lineside.
But fortunately it's not happening anyway.
Not sure about that, given the above link to Network Rail's page doesn't appear there's a change to the plans, six/seven months on from the local Tories' announcement.
The Gomshall bridge is a horrible eyesore and completely OTT (pun-ish) for the 'problem' it addressed. An interlocked crossing gate system should have been used.
Gomshall station is noted for its staggered platforms at the down ends, where stationary trains would obscure the view of the other track, increasing the risk of a collision with a person, Network Rail reporting near misses in the lead up to bridge's construction. The Farnborough North crossing has interlocked gates yet has several instances of misuse, including a high-profile near miss with college students. Such a replication (minus the attendant's hut) could lead to similar headlines at Gomshall. FWIW, any structure to mitigate the risk of pedestrian level crossing (controlled or not) would be desired for today's Health & Safety culture on the railways.
 

FenMan

Established Member
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Messages
1,444
funny how they always do their renders showing leafy trees and not bare wintertime ones.
Pedestrians would surely prefer the nice direct, flat, crossing rather than being treated like a child and sent a long way round up and down loads of steps

I'm unsure if you're a frequent user of Farnborough North.

The current arrangement costs a fortune. Contractors in their, now rather-well-appointed, portacabin are on duty 18+ hours a day, seven days a week to mitigate the risk of serious incidents occurring (some previous incidents have had tragic consequences).

The new bridge, with lifts, will be much safer, and I, for one, will be perfectly happy to go up and down the stairs to exit the station, just like I do at countless other stations.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
4,385
I'm unsure if you're a frequent user of Farnborough North.

The current arrangement costs a fortune. Contractors in their, now rather-well-appointed, portacabin are on duty 18+ hours a day, seven days a week to mitigate the risk of serious incidents occurring (some previous incidents have had tragic consequences).

The new bridge, with lifts, will be much safer, and I, for one, will be perfectly happy to go up and down the stairs to exit the station, just like I do at countless other stations.
The discussion from which you quoted was regarding the options for the crossing over the Ash Vale line at Frimley Green, not the one at Farnborough North. The Frimley Green options mentioned so far are for a ramped footbridge, or warning lights added to the existing level crossing.
 

WesternBiker

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2020
Messages
666
Location
Farnborough
The discussion from which you quoted was regarding the options for the crossing over the Ash Vale line at Frimley Green, not the one at Farnborough North. The Frimley Green options mentioned so far are for a ramped footbridge, or warning lights added to the existing level crossing.
Indeed.

Although on the same footpath as the Frimley Green crossing, Farnborough North is a much busier crossing (over 1,800 users a day plus 70+ cyclists) because it also provides access to the platforms on the east (Guildford-bound) line. The longstanding issue at Farnborough North is especially related to use by students attending the nearby Farnborough VI form college (one of the largest in the country with 4,500 students). This results in very large peak flows. Depending on the time of day (and which day of the week), there can be 100+ students arriving from the Reading direction and needing to cross the line from one service. I attach the photo from the Network Rail proposals, which illustrates the problem of numbers - and behaviours prior to the introduction of attendants. It's clear why a bridge was seen as the answer - perhaps the only question is why this wasn't addressed before?

The Frimley Green (Hatches) crossing gets a steady flow, but much less footfall overall (around 300 per day). There's still misuse, but the local issue was as much about those living in and around Spencer Close who, at the moment, live on a quiet cul-de-sac, and not a right of way that goes anywhere. It was perhaps inevitable they would object.

Screenshot 2024-09-04 at 10.22.52.jpeg
 

fandroid

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2014
Messages
1,844
Location
Hampshire
Possibly cost and/or access reasons? Gomshall has no lifts, just the standard very lengthy ramped access, which presumably will have been significantly cheaper and easier to install, and of course there was ample space in which to construct it. I believe there was some purchase of adjacent land required for the Farnborough installation, so that may have played a part also.
There was a significant legal reason for the time it took to get a solution at Farnborough North. A glance at an OS map will show that the crossing and the path it links to is a bridleway. Horse riders and cyclists had a right to use it as well as pedestrians. I've seen discussions about this from user groups, rather than the railway, point of view. It might seem a trivial issue, but the network available to riders is fragmented and roads are often too dangerous to use as connections. Therefore the riding community (incl. the BHS) would have been keen to find a solution that includes them too.

I'm not a rider myself so haven't followed this one in detail and don't know how the BHS's concerns were dealt with.

The Gomshall crossing only ever connected to a footpath, so the same issue didn't arise.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
8,492
There was a significant legal reason for the time it took to get a solution at Farnborough North. A glance at an OS map will show that the crossing and the path it links to is a bridleway. Horse riders and cyclists had a right to use it as well as pedestrians. I've seen discussions about this from user groups, rather than the railway, point of view. It might seem a trivial issue, but the network available to riders is fragmented and roads are often too dangerous to use as connections. Therefore the riding community (incl. the BHS) would have been keen to find a solution that includes them too.

I'm not a rider myself so haven't followed this one in detail and don't know how the BHS's concerns were dealt with.

The Gomshall crossing only ever connected to a footpath, so the same issue didn't arise.
I understand the point of principle in not extinguishing their rights easily, but has anyone in the last decade ever ridden a horse over that crossing?! Where would they be going!?
 

LUYMun

Member
Joined
15 Jul 2018
Messages
1,068
Location
Cancelled
The bridleway is also used for fishermen to access the Frimley lakes from the Farnborough North end. There’s a proposal by Hants CC to downgrade this status to a footpath, preventing any use for cyclists (plentiful), horse riders (virtually none) and motorised vehicles (occasional).
 

WesternBiker

Member
Joined
26 Aug 2020
Messages
666
Location
Farnborough
According to the Risk Assessment for the Farnborough North crossing replacement, in July 2012, Hampshire Country Council made a permanent Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) to prohibit equestrian access on the bridleway on its side of the county boundary, reducing it to a footway/cycle path.

Surrey County Council then followed suit with a temporary TRO in 2014 for the section of the bridleway that runs over the Hatches Crossing (most of the bridleway is in Surrey, the boundary being the Blackwater river, which runs close to the A331 dual carriageway). This is unlikely to change, given that since 2012, the bridleway has effectively been a cul-de-sac for equestrian use, ending at the county boundary.

The Network Rail documentation includes proposals to upgrade the road from Farnborough North eastwards (over the A331) and then southwards, to replace the user worked crossing (UWC) at Farnborough North. I don't know what is happening to this, as it would apparently need a new bridge over the Blackwater. It's possible that the UWC may remain for the time being.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,669
Location
Gomshall, Surrey
Anecdotally speaking, a lot of foot/cycle traffic are between Frimley Green's village centre and the Farnborough suburbs or town centre, alongside leisurely travellers and fishers through/to the lake, so their paths aren't hugely interrupted. It may not be the most direct but it's the safest, much rather railway staff's designated footpaths to access depots, sidings or facilities from stations or lineside.

Not sure about that, given the above link to Network Rail's page doesn't appear there's a change to the plans, six/seven months on from the local Tories' announcement.

Gomshall station is noted for its staggered platforms at the down ends, where stationary trains would obscure the view of the other track, increasing the risk of a collision with a person, Network Rail reporting near misses in the lead up to bridge's construction. The Farnborough North crossing has interlocked gates yet has several instances of misuse, including a high-profile near miss with college students. Such a replication (minus the attendant's hut) could lead to similar headlines at Gomshall. FWIW, any structure to mitigate the risk of pedestrian level crossing (controlled or not) would be desired for today's Health & Safety culture on the railways.
Hence an interlocked gate system could have been used at Gomshall to prevent crossing until the platforms were vacated by trains, rather than the gigantic structure that has been built, which also would have made step-free crossing vastly easier than the interminable bridge ramps. The usage of Gomshall (both type and numbers of passengers) is not comparable to Farnborough North in any case.
 

LUYMun

Member
Joined
15 Jul 2018
Messages
1,068
Location
Cancelled
Within the last week Farnborough North has gained a new shelter on each platform, replacing the former, larger ones nearer to the crossing.
 

JKF

Member
Joined
29 May 2019
Messages
831
Is the Farnborough bridge tall enough for OHLE? Would that even be a requirement in third rail territory? It looks a little short/less imposing than other recent ones I’ve seen, and actually quite a nice design.
 

Top