Farnborough to Guildford tickets

[Bill Badger]

An any permitted ticket between Farnborough and Guildford is cheaper than the route restricted via Woking ticket, but valid for travel via Woking.

I usually purchase this from the ticket office at Farnborough Main, but today I was running a bit late and there was a queue, so used the TVM instead. However, on the TVM the only option available was the more expensive via Woking ticket. As I say I was running late, so purchased this, so as not to miss my train but as a result have a couple of questions:

Are South West Trains allowed to offer only the more expensive option on their TVM?

Am I able to submit a claim for the difference in fare?

Do the answers to the above change if I’m going to stop short at Woking (which is still cheaper than a Woking ticket in most instances.)

Cheers

 

[embers25]

An any permitted ticket between Farnborough and Guildford is cheaper than the route restricted via Woking ticket, but valid for travel via Woking.

I usually purchase this from the ticket office at Farnborough Main, but today I was running a bit late and there was a queue, so used the TVM instead. However, on the TVM the only option available was the more expensive via Woking ticket. As I say I was running late, so purchased this, so as not to miss my train but as a result have a couple of questions:

Are South West Trains allowed to offer only the more expensive option on their TVM?

Am I able to submit a claim for the difference in fare?

Do the answers to the above change if I’m going to stop short at Woking (which is still cheaper than a Woking ticket in most instances.)

Cheers

Another Woking anomally. SWT machines don't offer it from Main as they will argue only the route Woking fare is valid from Main. Also they have instructed staff at Woking to block break of journey on these tickets too so beware!

 

[zoneking]

The ATOC routeing point calculator shows Woking as a routeing point for "any permitted" from Farnborough Main (FNB) to Guildford.

Woking WOK
Allowed by exact match at NFM64: SDS from WOK to GLD on route 00000: £2.20 is NOT more expensive than SDS from FNB to GLD on route 00000: £3.10.

However, Farnborough North (FNN) to Guildford is a direct train, and Woking is not a roueting point for this route. Because the tickets are from "Farnborough Stations", not FNB or FNN, it follows that FNB to Guildford (any permitted) is valid via Woking. The "via Woking" ticket is superfluous.

SWT are obviously trying to make money by not selling the cheaper ticket.

 

[bb21]

Also they have instructed staff at Woking to block break of journey on these tickets too so beware!

Is that a statement of fact or is it guesswork?

 

[embers25]

Is that a statement of fact or is it guesswork?

That is what they have told me and work colleagues directly. They are trying to refuse break of journey on tickets to Aldershot, Ash Vale and Guildford from stations between Basingstoke and Woking. This was decreed as of yesterday...obviously some tickets still work in the barriers so they are ok except for barrier block days.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The ATOC routeing point calculator shows Woking as a routeing point for "any permitted" from Farnborough Main (FNB) to Guildford.

Woking WOK
Allowed by exact match at NFM64: SDS from WOK to GLD on route 00000: £2.20 is NOT more expensive than SDS from FNB to GLD on route 00000: £3.10.

However, Farnborough North (FNN) to Guildford is a direct train, and Woking is not a roueting point for this route. Because the tickets are from "Farnborough Stations", not FNB or FNN, it follows that FNB to Guildford (any permitted) is valid via Woking. The "via Woking" ticket is superfluous.

SWT are obviously trying to make money by not selling the cheaper ticket.

Some years ago there was a thread which discussed whether you could choose which station to travel from in a group of stations such as "Farnborough Stations" if there was a direct service or shorter route from one of the group or a more long winded way from another member of the group. The answer from forum members was as always varied with arguments either way. Atoc, in response to a request from a forum member (me) said, basically, that no you were not free to select whichever station you wanted. However their response, which I quote below, was still unclear as they got themselves in a bit of a pickle towards the end I think. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions based on what they have said below.

The Fares Group Stations are in place to simplify the range of prices that the industry maintains. The Routeing Guide details the route availability between each origin and destination. In some cases, it is possible to travel out from one member of the Fares Group and back to another but for many short distance journeys, this is often not possible, particularly where the group members are on different lines of route. Short distance travel from Farnborough Main/North would be a good example of this.



The grouping of stations is standard industry practice, and the example of travel between Bradford to Pontefract Stns is akin to travel from London Stations/Terminals: just because it states London Terminals does not mean customers can travel from ANY of the London Stations to any particular destination.



With regard to travel between Bradford and New Pudsey, the only valid rail route for your £1.20 ticket is to go from Bradford Interchange. Should a customer wish to travel from Bradford Forster Square with the “Bradford Yk Stations” ticket then they would be required to walk from Bradford Forster Square to Bradford Interchange (from whence they commence their journey by train).



With regard to your other example, if SWT were to allow use of a ticket between Farnborough Stns and Blackwater to be used from Farnborough Main via Basingstoke/Reading or Woking/Guildford, it would have to build this wider availability into the prices it charges, which would not be popular with customers who simply want to travel on the direct train from Farnborough North (as anyone really making this journey would do). As most tickets can be used for break of journey, SWT would have to ensure that the fare from Farnborough to Blackwater did not undercut the most expensive of the fares for journeys between intermediate points – this is particularly difficult when FGW price Farnborough - Blackwater and SWT price many of the journeys that could be deemed intermediate if the wider availability via Basingstoke/Guildford were conceded.



To conclude, customers are able to use any permitted route from or to a particular station location but must check to ensure that there are no easements in place that forbid a particular journey. To calculate route permissions the user must specify a particular station location - the Routeing Guide does not recognise Fares Groups which are used solely to simplify the range of prices we maintain.

 

[TEW]

The same happens in reverse at Guildford. Select Farnborough North on the TVM, it sells you route Any Permitted. Select Farnborough Main on the TVM, it sells you route via Woking. I've never seen anyone who's been sold a route via Woking ticket from the ticket office at Farnborough Main though.

 

[Bill Badger]

I've never seen anyone who's been sold a route via Woking ticket from the ticket office at Farnborough Main though.

I was sold one once, so asked that it be cancelled and replaced with a route any permitted one, which was done with good grace. All makes it a bit galling that only the route via Woking ticket is available from the TVM.

 

[bb21]

That is what they have told me and work colleagues directly. They are trying to refuse break of journey on tickets to Aldershot, Ash Vale and Guildford from stations between Basingstoke and Woking. This was decreed as of yesterday...obviously some tickets still work in the barriers so they are ok except for barrier block days.

By whom?

My money is on you being fobbed off, and this being a local issue rather than something coming from the company.

 

[embers25]

By whom?

My money is on you being fobbed off, and this being a local issue rather than something coming from the company.

I thought that too but the barrier staff are still enforcing it 3 days later insisting its a company decision.

 

[t0ffeeman]

Remember years ago asking for a Farnboro to Liverpool Not London SVR at Woking.They were absolutely insistent on that ticket not existing until they actually looked it up.

Doesn't look like anything new round there...