Fastest double decker?

[61653 HTAFC]

I remember being on a Yorkshire Rider Atlantean on the X36 (which was rare in itself) and flying down Elland Bypass leaving an Escort Cosworth in it's wake. Said Cossie had just cut the bus up at Ainley Top roundabout but the bus driver had the last laugh! Not sure of the speed but the limit at the time was 70 and the boy racer in the Cosworth looked pretty stunned as we flew past! (I was in the rear-facing seat above the rear wheel). The noise alone would be illegal these days!

 

[Geordie driver]

Whenever I had a decent vehicle I used to get great joy from putting the boot down ( safety first, obvs.) and denying the " must get past the bus at all costs" drivers the opportunity to carve me up. Little pleasures.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Think probably the fastest decker I'd been on were the MCW Metroliner coaches that United had for North East to London. For a standard bus.... Probably a Volvo Citybus.

For the sensation of speed, and @Geordie driver may have experienced this, were the replacement of standard leaf springs on some United Bristol VRs with a retrofit called Taperlite that allegedly gave a "ride is said to be comparable with that of air suspension" - it wasn't

 

[notadriver]

Volvo citybus were fast but are they at a match for the enviro 400s used on the X1 etc ?

 

[dgl]

The noise alone would be illegal these days!

As for noise, going up the Verne on Portland in one of the Sureline Plaxton Beavers (at least I believe that's what they were), seemed to be in 1st gear most of the time to be able to get up the hills, so hitting revs a lot of the time. Never been in a vehicle so noisy!

 

[zuriblue]

Years ago but the Metro-Scanias that GMT used on the 400 Trans Lancs Express were no slouches.

 

[MotCO]

A bit off-topic, but I was bemused to be overtaken by an ice-cream van doing 80mph on the M25 .

On topic, I remember being on an RT on London route 72 or 152 going on the A3 (before the 'new' A3 at Hook - Cobham was built) between Hinchley Wood and Hook. There was a long downhill section, before a slight rise up to Hook. Provided that there was no one waiting at the stop at the botom of the hill, the buses used to fly down at probably about 50 mph, and the whole bus was shaking! It felt as if the bus really was busting a gut.

 

[cnjb8]

The Locallink Solo EVs in Nottingham accelerate quite fast!
My old school bus was very slow. It would wheeze up the hill on the way. It also spewed fumes like it was a power station. It also had mould growing by the windows, if that happened today, everyone would go mental

 

[Geordie driver]

Think probably the fastest decker I'd been on were the MCW Metroliner coaches that United had for North East to London. For a standard bus.... Probably a Volvo Citybus.

For the sensation of speed, and @Geordie driver may have experienced this, were the replacement of standard leaf springs on some United Bristol VRs with a retrofit called Taperlite that allegedly gave a "ride is said to be comparable with that of air suspension" - it wasn't

I have a vague memory of Taperlite but it's all a long time ago. I am a member of a Bristol VR group on Facebook.

Wasn't there a big fuss by a national newspaper about the London/ Northeast coaches speeding that heralded the fitting of limiters to the buses?

We had some Fleetlines that wouldn't get up a bank in Gateshead ( Shibdon Bank) with a full load of kids on, not enough power, so you made the kids get off and walk the steep bit.

 

[Mikey C]

A bit off-topic, but I was bemused to be overtaken by an ice-cream van doing 80mph on the M25 .

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Fifth Gear did quite an 'informative' piece with two MCW Metrobuses...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have a vague memory of Taperlite but it's all a long time ago. I am a member of a Bristol VR group on Facebook.

Wasn't there a big fuss by a national newspaper about the London/ Northeast coaches speeding that heralded the fitting of limiters to the buses?

We had some Fleetlines that wouldn't get up a bank in Gateshead ( Shibdon Bank) with a full load of kids on, not enough power, so you made the kids get off and walk the steep bit.

There were two serious incidents involving coaches that led to speed limiters being introduced.

One involved a United double deck MCW Metroliner that swerved to avoid sheep on the A1 south at Bradbury (near Sedgefield). It had been travelling at c.80mph and resulted in the death of two passengers including a young nurse. Her local MP from Durham said that the average speed for a Newcastle to London journey was 60mph to meet the 5h15 journey time!! He also quoted a newspaper investigation that showed a study of speeding coaches with a West Riding Fastway coach travelling at 85 mph on the outside edge of the fast lane.

However, what really changed things and prompted the law change was the accident involving an Eastern Scottish MCW Metroliner single decker that was heading south on the M6 near Garstang. There was a contraflow to do essential repairs and so standing traffic. The driver was thought to be doing over 70mph (?) and was too late to slow. Many fatalities - might be one of the worst motorway accidents ever. Think it was that one that directly led to speed limiters.

 

[Tempest3K]

I always thought Bristol VRs seemed very fast on inter urban runs. They probably weren't but they used to go like the clappers on the open road.

Wilts & Dorset's Bristol VR's quite happily hit 60+ doing the 665 school run between Bishopstone & Wilton in the early 90's....

 

[carlberry]

There were two serious incidents involving coaches that led to speed limiters being introduced.

One involved a United double deck MCW Metroliner that swerved to avoid sheep on the A1 south at Bradbury (near Sedgefield). It had been travelling at c.80mph and resulted in the death of two passengers including a young nurse. Her local MP from Durham said that the average speed for a Newcastle to London journey was 60mph to meet the 5h15 journey time!! He also quoted a newspaper investigation that showed a study of speeding coaches with a West Riding Fastway coach travelling at 85 mph on the outside edge of the fast lane.

However, what really changed things and prompted the law change was the accident involving an Eastern Scottish MCW Metroliner single decker that was heading south on the M6 near Garstang. There was a contraflow to do essential repairs and so standing traffic. The driver was thought to be doing over 70mph (?) and was too late to slow. Many fatalities - might be one of the worst motorway accidents ever. Think it was that one that directly led to speed limiters.

From memory (and it might have been effected since!) I thought the contraflow incident resulted in the temporary ban for coaches from the outside lane on three/four lane motorways, I remember speed limiters being an issue in the early 1980s (new build from memory) and I thought they came from an EU directive at the time.

 

[harz99]

...........

 

[harz99]

A bit off-topic, but I was bemused to be overtaken by an ice-cream van doing 80mph on the M25 .

On topic, I remember being on an RT on London route 72 or 152 going on the A3 (before the 'new' A3 at Hook - Cobham was built) between Hinchley Wood and Hook. There was a long downhill section, before a slight rise up to Hook. Provided that there was no one waiting at the stop at the botom of the hill, the buses used to fly down at probably about 50 mph, and the whole bus was shaking! It felt as if the bus really was busting a gut.

With the standard red RT back axle/diff the maximum was normally very close to 48mph and that would be in an exceedingly good bus, the big issue was stopping them from that speed, especially if still going down hill, standing on the brake pedal with rear end twitching and the smell of hot brakes was not a good feeling...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From memory (and it might have been effected since!) I thought the contraflow incident resulted in the temporary ban for coaches from the outside lane on three/four lane motorways, I remember speed limiters being an issue in the early 1980s (new build from memory) and I thought they came from an EU directive at the time.

You definitely ring a bell on the banning of coaches from fast lane after the M6 incident.

Speed limiters fitment and enforcement are a bit of a hazy thing so I may be conflating the various incidents/factors. Certainly, whilst some vehicles did have limiters fitted in the early 1980s, there were plenty of MCW Metroliners and Leyland Tigers that certainly didn't have them.

Wilts & Dorset's Bristol VR's quite happily hit 60+ doing the 665 school run between Bishopstone & Wilton in the early 90's....

Two of my most memorable VRs were that sort of territory. One was a W&D VR hurtling down the road towards Blandford Camp from Salisbury and a Stagecoach Hampshire Bus one screaming like hell on the A30 from Andover to Salisbury on the fast back route via the Wallops. Perhaps H&D specified high speed axles

We had some Fleetlines that wouldn't get up a bank in Gateshead ( Shibdon Bank) with a full load of kids on, not enough power, so you made the kids get off and walk the steep bit.

My dad's depot lost it's only new Olympian but a few years got one that was "pre-enjoyed". Standard ECW/Gardner with Hydracyclic gearbox - never experienced one so gutless. I'd suspected it was a pup before it arrived as it seemed to be hidden on other less arduous duties whilst the semi auto ones got hammered day in and day out.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Taperlite that allegedly gave a "ride is said to be comparable with that of air suspension"

By "air suspension" were they thinking of a bouncy castle?

Fastest service bus I've been on? An Arriva/United Metrorider on a large run from Hartlepool back to Durham. Never felt anything like it, no idea what they'd done to it.

The Optare Sigmas fair moved on the Moors Road on the X93 too, you were just deaf and shaken to bits when you got off.

What was the top speed of the ex-Hong Kong Olympians used on Megabus services in the early 2000's?

About 25mph

 

[richw]

Aren't all deckers in the UK limited to 50mph? (and for completness, singles are limited to 62mph I think?)

No such rule but anything with a powered speed exceeding 60 mph must be fitted with seatbelts. (Trains excepted haha)

Legally required to be limited to 100 KpH, (62mph). Never had seatbelts fitted on my service buses that will do 62, and every other service bus across the country that can legally be restricted to 62. I therefore discard your post that seatbelts must be fitted!

Wilts & Dorset's Bristol VR's quite happily hit 60+ doing the 665 school run between Bishopstone & Wilton in the early 90's....

There seems to be various set ups on the VR. I’ve driven a few, some pulled steady up hills and rubbish top end (45ish), others were painful slow on hills but easily met 60mph. I was told it depended on the rear axle set up.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

By "air suspension" were they thinking of a bouncy castle?

Fastest service bus I've been on? An Arriva/United Metrorider on a large run from Hartlepool back to Durham. Never felt anything like it, no idea what they'd done to it.

The Optare Sigmas fair moved on the Moors Road on the X93 too, you were just deaf and shaken to bits when you got off.

Take it you mean Optare Prismas? They were great buses in their day.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Take it you mean Optare Prismas? They were great buses in their day.

All the Optares looked the same, my mistake!

But yes, I did mean the ones with the Merc engine and chassis. I think that's the Prisma!

 

[notadriver]

The rules on seatbelts don’t to apply to vehicles that can have standing passengers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...at-belts-in-minibuses-coaches-and-other-buses

 

[MotCO]

With the standard red RT back axle/diff the maximum was normally very close to 48mph and that would be in an exceedingly good bus, the big issue was stopping them from that speed, especially if still going down hill, standing on the brake pedal with rear end twitching and the smell of hot brakes was not a good feeling...

It certainly seemed to be a bit of a struggle whenever we had to stop at the bottom of the hill. Sitting at the front downstairs, the radiator looked as though it ws going to blow, and the bus looked as though it was at its maximum stress.

 

[LiviCrazy]

First used to run the old X15 Livingston to Glasgow on the Omnidekkas. They seemed to have some speed in them with a couple of the drivers having them regularly overtaking a lot of the traffic.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

All the Optares looked the same, my mistake!

But yes, I did mean the ones with the Merc engine and chassis. I think that's the Prisma!

Arriva NE operated most Optares of that era save Sigmas, even getting some rather old Spectras. The Prismas were good fast machines based on the Merc 0405 whilst Sigmas were on a Lance chassis.

I've mentioned it before but I occasionally used to get the 723 on a night from Durham to Darlington. The United Olympians fairly pootled along. However, the Cummins Metrobuses of Northern were superb machines as they belted along the open stretches of the A167 and barely missed a beat as they climbed up Dean and Chapter Bank into Ferryhill. Northern's batch of DP Metrobuses with turbo charged Gardner engines were even better if you got one on the X1

 

[Tetchytyke]

However, the Cummins Metrobuses of Northern were superb machines as they belted along the open stretches of the A167 and barely missed a beat as they climbed up Dean and Chapter Bank into Ferryhill. Northern's batch of DP Metrobuses with turbo charged Gardner engines were even better if you got one on the X1

I caught the tail end of those, starting at Durham university in 2001. The DP Metrobuses didn't do the flagship work too often but they were good fun when they occasionally turned up on the 21. They were regulars on the 154 to Seaham and fair tore up the hill to Low Moorsley.

An E400 doesn't quite have the same feel to it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I caught the tail end of those, starting at Durham university in 2001. The DP Metrobuses didn't do the flagship work too often but they were good fun when they occasionally turned up on the 21. They were regulars on the 154 to Seaham and fair tore up the hill to Low Moorsley.

An E400 doesn't quite have the same feel to it.

Quite - don't get back home that often and been some time since I did the 7 from Durham to Darlo. The e400 ain't a bad old bus TBF.

 

[Tetchytyke]

e400 ain't a bad old bus TBF.

They're good buses, but that's part of the issue. A roaring Olympian with rattles and a leaky window but big squashy seats, was more atmospheric.

Damn modern people, wanting a bus that doesn't leak and doesn't deafen you </old codger>

 

[Mikey C]

They're good buses, but that's part of the issue. A roaring Olympian with rattles and a leaky window but big squashy seats, was more atmospheric.

Damn modern people, wanting a bus that doesn't leak and doesn't deafen you </old codger>

The difference between modern double deckers and say the Volvo Olympian is probably down more to the stringent emissions controls now, and the desire for better fuel consumption.

I imagine the current Volvo B5 for example would be a lot nicer to drive with the 10L engines used 20 years ago!

 

[Geordie driver]

The difference between modern double deckers and say the Volvo Olympian is probably down more to the stringent emissions controls now, and the desire for better fuel consumption.

I imagine the current Volvo B5 for example would be a lot nicer to drive with the 10L engines used 20 years ago!

I do recall the company didn't care a jot about fuel consumption or the environment. We had a Leyland National that was never switched off as it was a poor starter.
In the winter someone would start up all the early buses and leave them running in the depot, you had to feel your way around to find your bus, such were the fumes. No wonder bus drivers die early.