Fatality - Hither Green

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DelayRepay

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Sadly there has been a fatality at Hither Green. Trains being diverted or cancelled. I believe TFL buses are accepting rail tickets in the area.
 
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tsr

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Sadly there has been a fatality at Hither Green. Trains being diverted or cancelled. I believe TFL buses are accepting rail tickets in the area.
As are LU and DLR services.

Here's the latest update, as of 1918hrs, from NRE:

Incident created: 02/03/2012 18:42

Train operator affected: Southeastern

Description:

A person has been hit by a train at Hither Green.

Because of this, the following changes will apply until further notice:
  • Trains that normally run via Sidcup are being diverted via Bexleyheath.
  • Other trains via Hither Green are being cancelled or delayed by up to 30 minutes

Passengers may use:
  • London Buses on any reasonable route
  • London Underground on any reasonable route
  • Docklands Light Railway on any reasonable route
The incident actually occurred at or before 1838hrs.

I'm sorry to hear of yet another incident of this nature. Whilst I understand fully that the priority is (quite rightly) to deal respectfully with the incident and any investigations, and to help the witnesses, I hope that this is sorted out before the worst of the Friday late-night travel. I wouldn't want to be a member of station staff or train staff who have to break this sort of news to potentially volatile crowds of, erm, ex-partygoers, that's for sure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Important update to this - I have read reports coming through on Twitter that people are evacuating themselves from at least one stranded train in the area. All power has reportedly been turned off on the affected lines, with people possibly panicking since only emergency lighting is working (some people have reported half the lights are off, which can't be nice, in some trains). NR's Twitter feed is asking people not to leave their trains of their own accord. Oh dear...

EDIT: NR are now saying that they have one train left to evacuate. This has been apparently confirmed by SET's website as a fatality. Southern are now accepting tickets from Victoria-Tonbridge via Redhill.
 
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DelayRepay

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My own train home was held just after leaving London Bridge. I was heading for Bromley North via Grove Park. Fortunately we had not entered the affected area and the train diverted to Bromley South. I've just got home but had a text from my neighbour asking me to feed his cat. He's been on a train near Hither Green for about an hour and a half. Not sure what time he'll be back...

Actually - I've never been Southeastern's biggest fan but I was quite impressed this evening. Very clear announcements on the train from the driver. Another Southeastern staff member who was travelling on the train walked through the carriages helping passengers work out which station to get off at and which bus they should catch to get home. He also lent his mobile phone to a passenger so he could call his wife, who was waiting for him at Grove Park.
 

tsr

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My own train home was held just after leaving London Bridge. I was heading for Bromley North via Grove Park. Fortunately we had not entered the affected area and the train diverted to Bromley South. I've just got home but had a text from my neighbour asking me to feed his cat. He's been on a train near Hither Green for about an hour and a half. Not sure what time he'll be back...

Actually - I've never been Southeastern's biggest fan but I was quite impressed this evening. Very clear announcements on the train from the driver. Another Southeastern staff member who was travelling on the train walked through the carriages helping passengers work out which station to get off at and which bus they should catch to get home. He also lent his mobile phone to a passenger so he could call his wife, who was waiting for him at Grove Park.
Is that the same person who just (in a rather tongue-in-cheek way) said on Twitter that he'd be OK because he had cat food in his backpack? That was a person called Chris.

I'm afraid this may stay as a crime scene for a while, since I heard the person may have been on the track as a result of another person's action, but I am absolutely not going to speculate any further about this, because it may be extremely distasteful to some.
 

DelayRepay

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No, he's not called Chris...

Live Departure Boards for Hither Green don't seem to reflect the problems.
 

DelayRepay

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Update from my neighbour - apparently his train was ready to start moving when people decided to de-train themselves. So now they're delayed further while the trespassers are rounded up....
 

asylumxl

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Is that the same person who just (in a rather tongue-in-cheek way) said on Twitter that he'd be OK because he had cat food in his backpack? That was a person called Chris.

I'm afraid this may stay as a crime scene for a while, since I heard the person may have been on the track as a result of another person's action, but I am absolutely not going to speculate any further about this, because it may be extremely distasteful to some.
From what I was told at London Bridge by a member of staff, it was most probably accidental. A couple arguing, which turned nasty and had this end result.

Very unfortunate.
 

tsr

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Update from my neighbour - apparently his train was ready to start moving when people decided to de-train themselves. So now they're delayed further while the trespassers are rounded up....
Multiple reports of suggested, attempted or actual trespass have been flying around on Twitter. Also, the PASCOM has been activated on at least one train. Apparently, a number of trains are reversing to Lewisham and other stations.
 

DelayRepay

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Why does it always seem to be in the South East when we have these ridiculous incidents of detraining
I don't know but it seems to happen every time there's the most minor delay. I do sympathise with delayed passengers but there is no excuse for stupidity.
 

SouthEastern-465

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I was told at London Bridge earlier someone had been pushed by there wife onto the tracks after a dispute, best not speculating.

I was trying to get back to Grove Park where I live, but had to get to the Ladywell where I caught a bus. I have to say well done to SE for keeping everyone updated! :)
 

tempests1

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Multiple reports of suggested, attempted or actual trespass have been flying around on Twitter. Also, the PASCOM has been activated on at least one train. Apparently, a number of trains are reversing to Lewisham and other stations.
Any excuse. I just wish they could spend 5 minutes with the ECR staff at Lewisham seeing what is involved with with an emergency isolation and they fact that they are stitching up other passengers on trains stuck in a section between stations. But I guess it is all about the Individual!:roll:
 

tsr

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The LDBs for Hither Green aren't too bad at the moment. I know the station is now open (and has been for a while).

By all accounts, this was indeed an argument which went tragically wrong. If it was an accident, I do feel sorry for the person who caused it.
 

MikeWh

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Why does it always seem to be in the South East when we have these ridiculous incidents of detraining
Maybe the problem is worse on 3rd rail lines so it isn't so much of an issue elsewhere.

I've got to echo the praise for SE staff. I was waiting at Sidcup and the staff member was advising that there would be no trains less than 10 minutes after the incident. I was not so impressed with the PIS screens which appeared to be showing trains approaching Sidcup in both directions when they were already being diverted. It's not the first time I've seen this ghost like behaviour and they really ought to do something about it.

I'd also like to offer condolences and sympathy to anyone who witnessed the incident. It looks like it was on platform 5 at 1830 or so and there might have been loads of people making their way to the exit at the time. Not a good start to the weekend.
 

tsr

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Any excuse. I just wish they could spend 5 minutes with the ECR staff at Lewisham seeing what is involved with with an emergency isolation and they fact that they are stitching up other passengers on trains stuck in a section between stations. But I guess it is all about the Individual!:roll:
I'm not suggesting that a valid excuse was used by passengers rushing to get off trains - just to clarify, all I was saying is that there appear to have been multiple passenger incidents other than the fatality, causing further delays and problems, and probably interfering with evidence, as well as important safety procedures.
 

bluenoxid

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Why does it always seem to be in the South East when we have these ridiculous incidents of detraining
Several reasons

Up north, we have probably run over at least something the size of the rabbit plus in the car so know that whatever the train has hit, it is not going to look nice.

Third Rail

More ways of getting off a railway line and on to land without issues outside of third rail territory

More patience

We are not terrified of having to talk to strangers whilst waiting to be moved. Think of the children... :lol:
 

VTPreston_Tez

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...and in the North, my Northern Preston-Hazel Grove ran over a dog near Lostock, and the service continued 10 minutes later, after emergency services arrived. So in the north, we get going faster, in the south you get better announcements.
 

MCR247

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...and in the North, my Northern Preston-Hazel Grove ran over a dog near Lostock, and the service continued 10 minutes later, after emergency services arrived. So in the north, we get going faster, in the south you get better announcements.
As if you just said that :lol::lol:
 

Michael.Y

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Why does it always seem to be in the South East when we have these ridiculous incidents of detraining
I'll say what no-one else seems willing to say -- they're London commuters. They're impatient, rude, self-centred, and on a Friday night probably had a pint of Stella behind the bar in their local "gastropub" waiting for them.
 

AlterEgo

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...and in the North, my Northern Preston-Hazel Grove ran over a dog near Lostock, and the service continued 10 minutes later, after emergency services arrived. So in the north, we get going faster, in the south you get better announcements.
I really can't believe I just read that. Hitting and killing a human being is a whole world of difference to hitting a dog!
 

swt_passenger

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I'll say what no-one else seems willing to say -- they're London commuters. They're impatient, rude, self-centred, and on a Friday night probably had a pint of Stella behind the bar in their local "gastropub" waiting for them.
I'd not disagree with that, and I doubt many staff would either. We saw some of them on the first episode of the tube documentary...

Many of them will have read articles in the Metro & Standard that IMHO usually almost encourage the view that escaping from the clutches of the big bad railway is definitelty the way to go.

Remember the tone of that article a few weeks ago (when the Thameslink service was diverted off route late at night), and the line taken in the papers was that passengers had been kidnapped?

It all just serves to encourage baling out of trains AFAICS...
 

tsr

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I'll say what no-one else seems willing to say -- they're London commuters. They're impatient, rude, self-centred, and on a Friday night probably had a pint of Stella behind the bar in their local "gastropub" waiting for them.
That is waaay too harsh a generalisation. I regularly travel around London in a way that may - loosely - be called commuting. I am not like this. A very great deal of people are not. Most people - the ones who are generally ignored by complainers - are reasonably considerate and don't enjoy trespassing the track, for example. Admittedly, there are probably more commuters in the South of London than pretty much anywhere else in the country, so you will have a higher number of those who seem to exhibit unreasonable or dangerous behaviour.

I think part of the problem is the contrast between leaving one TOC, or the LU, which may be running absolutely fine, with high service frequencies, and being plunged into the chaos of another TOC (or indeed LU line) which is embroiled in an incident. I think any sudden shift from "good service" to "major disruption" is more than some commuters can handle. Even if the problems are announced by staff before the passengers are affected (e.g. on connecting services), some of them just can't cope. It's not a good thing, and it's not an excuse for trespassing (or whatever), but it may be a plausible explanation.
 

SouthEastern-465

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Depends - would you have stayed on the train or joined the masses of sheep thinking they know better?
Nah I'm wiser than to go down onto an electrified track... Most likely because I'm an enthusiast and aware of the dangers, whilst most other people are still aware they have this attitude "I know best it won't happen to me" I also think people are copying an episode from summer last year where people bailed out a broken down EMU and have seen that and think its acceptable.


 

tsr

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Nah I'm wiser than to go down onto an electrified track... Most likely because I'm an enthusiast and aware of the dangers, whilst most other people are still aware they have this attitude "I know best it won't happen to me" I also think people are copying an episode from summer last year where people bailed out a broken down EMU and have seen that and think its acceptable.


That sounds like pretty sensible logic to me. Sadly, this probably means that if you are in situations like the one we are discussing, you will be dismissed by a vocal minority of passengers as "naïve" and "lazy", rather than "quite reasonably not willing to risk electrocuting yourself, slipping over on an operational railway in the dark or failing to negotiate any of the other hazards".
 

transmanche

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Instead of slipping into character generalisations born out of ignorance, my theory would be this.

You're on a train that's wedged to the rafters. You know the next station just a couple of hundred meteres ahead. You've heard dozens of stories reported by the media of times where people have been stuck in a train for two, three, four hours following incidents. You know that no trains are moving. You may not even be aware of such things as a live third rail. Information coming via the driver is sparse and gives no real indication what's happened or how long it will take to resolve.

And then it only takes just one person to get off a train...
 
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