Father who bought first-class ticket fined £484 - for getting on the wrong train

[sheff1]

Perhaps wider use of the Blackpool North system of not letting anyone on to a platform until a set (and generally rather limited) time before departure might work.

Aberdeen operates a variation of that system. Seats are provided on the southbound platforms and passengers can pass through the barriers and head towards them when a Platform is advertised but, as soon as they attempt to sit down, they are accosted by a staff member who demands that they return to the concourse (where there are not enough seats) because "the train is not ready". After milling around on the concourse for a while, the passengers are called forward only to find their tickets are now rejected due to "passback". The staff then open the gates to let them through .... the pièce de résistance is that at no time is an Advance ticket checked to ascertain which train it is for.

Surely such a superb system warrants a wider roll out !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Impossible in the case of CCST tickets as there is no spare capacity on the magnetic strip for such coding. In any event, it would require a rework of barrier software as well and would raise many questions about how it could be reasonably enforced and communicated. Perhaps wider use of the Blackpool North system of not letting anyone on to a platform until a set (and generally rather limited) time before departure might work. However, I am not seriously proposing that.

Which is, or was until the recent rejig (not been there since), exactly what VT do for WCML departures at Lime St.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Aberdeen operates a variation of that system. Seats are provided on the southbound platforms and passengers can pass through the barriers and head towards them when a Platform is advertised but, as soon as they attempt to sit down, they are accosted by a staff member who demands that they return to the concourse (where there are not enough seats) because "the train is not ready". After milling around on the concourse for a while, the passengers are called forward only to find their tickets are now rejected due to "passback". The staff then open the gates to let them through .... the pièce de résistance is that at no time is an Advance ticket checked to ascertain which train it is for.

Surely such a superb system warrants a wider roll out !

At Inverness you used to be able to queue for a train, now with the barriers you can't. If there was a station that didn't need barriers (because manual checks worked better) it was there.

 

[najaB]

At Inverness you used to be able to queue for a train, now with the barriers you can't. If there was a station that didn't need barriers (because manual checks worked better) it was there.

To be fair, the barriers are more about smartcard season tickets. They could have gone with validators but there wasn't really an obvious place for them to go.

 

[6Gman]

Perhaps examination of tickets and enforcement of restrictions at the barrier would assist in sorting the deliberate (who will find a way through) from the accidental.

Indeed, but when the barrier opens 15 minutes before departure and there's a queue of 300 people waiting to board a detailed examination of each ticket may not be practical.

 

[sefton]

Indeed, but when the barrier opens 15 minutes before departure and there's a queue of 300 people waiting to board a detailed examination of each ticket may not be practical.

A trivial issue to solve with technology if the train companies actually had the will to solve the problem and the intelligence to cooperate with each other.

 

[87 027]

In my experience, IT implementations are rarely "trivial" and I suspect a sound business case and funding are important ingredients as well as will and intelligence

 

[Deerfold]

A trivial issue to solve with technology if the train companies actually had the will to solve the problem and the intelligence to cooperate with each other.

This trivial issue would, at the very least, require all the barrier systems to be replaced, along with upgrading all ticket issuing systems to a new standard.

 

[6Gman]

A trivial issue to solve with technology if the train companies actually had the will to solve the problem and the intelligence to cooperate with each other.

I find there is a touching faith in technology on this Forum.

 

[sefton]

I find there is a touching faith in technology on this Forum.

I find there is quite a Luddite attitude (and I do mean its real meaning).

 

[hounddog]

I find there is a touching faith in technology on this Forum.

The technology is fine. It's the half-baked implementation of it on the railway that's the problem.

 

[sheff1]

The technology is fine. It's the half-baked implementation of it on the railway that's the problem.

Quite. The technology alluded to by sefton is well proven and has been in use for years on the railways of various other countries.

 

[Deerfold]

Quite. The technology alluded to by sefton is well proven and has been in use for years on the railways of various other countries.

Still not a trivial problem to update it all.

 

[Wolfie]

Which is of next to zero import - the passenger needs to provide evidence that they were actually given permission, not that it is a possibility.

Yes, verbal permission is acceptable. However the onus is still on the passenger to provide positive proof that they were given permission. If not, every passenger would simply say "A man on the platform told me I could."

I agree. Congratulations, you have just highlighted why at some point, likely in the not too distant future, the pressure for legislative change will be too hard for the Govt to resist! In the short term TOCs will continue to cave to avoid such an event which would be catastrophic for their half-assed penny-pinching business models....

 

[Deerfold]

I find there is quite a Luddite attitude (and I do mean its real meaning).

I'm not sure you do. What meaning are you attributing to the word?

 

[Wolfie]

I'm not sure you do. What meaning are you attributing to the word?

I suspect (and for the record I am not saying that I agree) that sefton is referring to some of the TU-related postings on other threads.

 

[sheff1]

Still not a trivial problem to update it all.

I never said it was.

 

[najaB]

Still not a trivial problem to update it all.

I never said it was.

Err...

A trivial issue to solve with technology...

 

[sheff1]

Err...

I am not sefton

 

[najaB]

I am not sefton

Indeed you are not. Apologies. That's what I get for speed-reading threads.

 

[sefton]

The solution is trivial if anyone actually wanted to do it.

However a combination of short term contracts for the train companies, with infighting and no cooperation, combined with a Luddite* attitude from staff means there is no desire for it to happen.

Far easier to blame the customer and charge them substantial sums of money if there is a dispute.

*Luddite - a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, which they believed was threatening their jobs.

 

[6Gman]

The solution is trivial if anyone actually wanted to do it.

However a combination of short term contracts for the train companies, with infighting and no cooperation, combined with a Luddite* attitude from staff means there is no desire for it to happen.

Far easier to blame the customer and charge them substantial sums of money if there is a dispute.

*Luddite - a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, which they believed was threatening their jobs.

Still don't see how it prevents people getting on a different train from the one their Advance Ticket applies to.

Talk us through it ...

 

[Deerfold]

The solution is trivial if anyone actually wanted to do it.

I still don't see what's trivial about changing every ticket issuing system and barrier in the country.

*Luddite - a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, which they believed was threatening their jobs.

Ah, so not the original meaning. Luddites were complaining that the introduction of new machines being used as an excuse to worsen their pay and conditions. They had no problem with improved technology per se.

 

[Clip]

Ah, so not the original meaning. Luddites were complaining that the introduction of new machines being used as an excuse to worsen their pay and conditions. They had no problem with improved technology per se.

Quite, though its rather a pedantic point to argue the toss over when most people who knowingly think it would be about the introduction of technology nowadays

 

[Deerfold]

Quite, though its rather a pedantic point to argue the toss over when most people who knowingly think it would be about the introduction of technology nowadays

I wouldn't have done normally, but @sefton was very particular.

I find there is quite a Luddite attitude (and I do mean its real meaning).

 

[sefton]

I still don't see what's trivial about changing every ticket issuing system and barrier in the country.

Trivial if you have the correct mindset, unlike train companies where everything is deemed 'too difficult'.

 

[najaB]

Trivial if you have the correct mindset, unlike train companies where everything is deemed 'too difficult'.

Tell you what, you provide the £100M or so that this would take and I'm sure the TOCs will do it happily.

 

[sefton]

Tell you what, you provide the £100M or so that this would take and I'm sure the TOCs will do it happily.

This sort of comment is exactly what I mean.

Instead of taking the 'it is too hard' approach, how about accepting that a 1970's system is past its sell by date and delivering something suitable for today.

After all, is investing to deliver a good customer experience and to drive increased demand such a terrible idea.

 

[najaB]

Instead of taking the 'it is too hard' approach, how about accepting that a 1970's system is past its sell by date and delivering something suitable for today.

Says the guy who wants to upgrade ticket barriers...

 

[Deerfold]

Trivial if you have the correct mindset, unlike train companies where everything is deemed 'too difficult'.

There's a difference between 'too difficult' and 'not trivial'. There may well be a case to be made for doing it, but dismissing it as trivial doesn't make it so.