FCC again making it difficult for railcard holders

[yorkie]

In my opinion they should sell them at any time of the day and the use of them before the appropriate time penalised heavily.

I totally oppose this. People should be excessed to the appropriate fare. The old PF rules used to allow people to be given a penalty fare (in PF areas of course) for being on a time restricted ticket at an invalid time, but this was changed a few years ago.

Quite how anyone can ask for passengers to be penalised heavily when the restrictions are incredibly complex, is beyond my comprehension, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Many people mistakenly think that off peak always starts at a certain time (e.g. someone in EMT or LM territory who usually does local journeys would think that time is 0900) and if they visit an unusual area, why should they not take the ATOC claim that the name "off peak" describes when they can use their ticket (ie, if one is valid after 9am, they must all be) at face value? Does someone who believes the ATOC spin deserve to be heavily penalised?

As for the screens, there is no such thing as a "peak" ticket, and some Off Peak tickets are valid. However there is no point contacting First about this issue any longer, it now needs to be escalated to the DfT/Passenger Focus/ATOC/Watchdog/whatever. The book needs to be thrown at them quite frankly.

 

[island]

But I doubt it will be

I actually agree with Roylang's point that someone who has been clearly advised of the restrictions applicable to his/her ticket and chooses to flout them needs to be dealt with firmly. For example, someone goes to a ticket window at 0930 on a weekday and asks for an NSE-discounted ticket, is told that it won't be valid until 1000, accepts this, and the ticket clerk marks the ticket "restrictions advised". Then the passenger gets on the 0940 train. That person has no excuse.

 

[stut]

For example, someone goes to a ticket window at 0930 on a weekday and asks for an NSE-discounted ticket, is told that it won't be valid until 1000, accepts this, and the ticket clerk marks the ticket "restrictions advised". Then the passenger gets on the 0940 train. That person has no excuse.

Unless, of course, the clerk is in a rush, and stamps the ticket without saying anything.

 

[Roylang]

I totally oppose this. People should be excessed to the appropriate fare. The old PF rules used to allow people to be given a penalty fare (in PF areas of course) for being on a time restricted ticket at an invalid time, but this was changed a few years ago.

Quite how anyone can ask for passengers to be penalised heavily when the restrictions are incredibly complex, is beyond my comprehension, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Fair enough, the point I was trying to make is that the ticket should be available to purchase at any time and not managed to the inconvenience of the passenger.

I know the restrictions are not straightforward and again, that it to the inconvenience of the passenger. Time for things to be simplified to the point that tickets can simply say "not valid before xx.xx"?

Roy

 

[island]

Try printing restriction 4B on a ticket!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....I actually agree with Roylang's point that someone who has been clearly advised of the restrictions applicable to his/her ticket and chooses to flout them needs to be dealt with firmly. For example, someone goes to a ticket window at 0930 on a weekday and asks for an NSE-discounted ticket, is told that it won't be valid until 1000, accepts this, and the ticket clerk marks the ticket "restrictions advised". Then the passenger gets on the 0940 train. That person has no excuse.

Absolutely, but perhaps the clerk writing "not valid before [time]" (where it is that simple) would suffice.

Unless, of course, the clerk is in a rush, and stamps the ticket without saying anything.

If they are in a rush, they wouldn't waste time stamping it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks Yorkie. But this begs the question: should I turn up in good time for the 1004, and should (contrary to what FCC say) the ticket office staff refuse to sell me the required ticket prior to 10am, what is my next immediate course of action? Can I get on the 1004 without a ticket? Or do I have to buy a non-discounted ticket and go to all the trouble and inconvenience of attempting to claim the difference back from FCC?

I would anticipate the former would result in some sort of fine or summons, while the latter would result in literally months worth of correspondence with FCC (and an eventual expense in terms of time and materials which dwarfs and eventual refund).

Personally I would say NRCoC condition 3 covers it nicely. If the staff refuse to sell the ticket and the machine will not issue it in good time for you to catch the train, then the range of tickets available is restricted.

3. Where the full range of tickets is not available

If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because the
range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start your journey
is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to
make at least part of the journey. Then you must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy
an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to pay
the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey.
The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to
Travel.

So, buy a ticket to the next stop, travel to your destination and if you come across a ticket office or a member of staff who can issue the tickets, exchange it for a full distance, discounted fare.

This strategy would carry risks though, like how you prove the ticket office refused to sell the fare.