FCC Delay Repay Issue

[leyscjd]

In July I travelled Newcastle-Palmers Green on advance tickets split 3 ways: Newcastle-York, York-Newark & Newark-Palmers Green. In the event due to delays on the final leg of the journey (Kings Cross-Palmers Green), I was entitled to Delay Repay from First Capital Connect.

Predictably they only sent vouchers to cover the third leg of the split. I replied, copying a paragraph from an earlier post on this forum:

"I am very surprised that you do not believe I am entitled to Delay Repay for my entire journey. This is clearly incorrect. For the avoidance of doubt, the National Rail Conditions of Carriage point 19 states that two or more tickets may be used for one journey. I will give you further opportunity to re-consider your position, before taking the matter further."

Their latest reply is no better: "I understand that you were in possession of a combination of tickets for different legs of your journey. Compensation is only payable on the portion of the journey with FCC. With a through ticket, you are covered for the entire journey"...

The last paragraph is surely utter rubbish. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should include in my next letter?

 

[34D]

If you were delayed leaving Newcastle by 2 hours, then compensation on all three tickets seems appropriate. But if on time at Newark, I can see their point.... But that is just my own logic. I'm interested to see what the forum experts think.

 

[Ferret]

If you were delayed leaving Newcastle by 2 hours, then compensation on all three tickets seems appropriate. But if on time at Newark, I can see their point.... But that is just my own logic. I'm interested to see what the forum experts think.

I see their point too - and although condition 19 states you can use 2 or more tickets for a journey, it doesn't mention within said condition how it affects delay repay, so I guess it's open to interpretation, and FCC are interpretting in the most favourable way to themselves!

 

[swt_passenger]

I also think this is quite reasonable and a risk you take with a split. If the first or second legs of three had been delayed I expect it would be a different response.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

leyscjd, you would be in a much stronger position to argue for a more generous offer if you made a claim on the delayed Newark - Palmers Green element of your journey.

This opinion disregards the contentious issue of 'split ticketing' (or as FCC have phrased it: "of a combination of tickets for different legs of your journey"). I expect we will struggle to reach agreement on a refund for your entire journey, and it is perhaps a little optimistic on your part. However, the counter-argument that you have recieved would not have been invoked if you had merely claimed for the one-ticket, two-train actual journey that incurred the delay.

You could certainly try again on this basis.

 

[yorkie]

What was the length of delay?

Have they supplied the correct amount of compensation if the journey was Newark - Palmers Green, or are they only compensating you based on the price of the King's Cross/Stevenage (?) - Palmers Green leg of the journey?

At present it is unclear to me what amount of compensation was expected, what amount of compensation was provided, what the route taken was, and how the compensation has been calculated.

 

[leyscjd]

The delay was 60 minutes+ and they have provided compensation for 100 per cent of the cost of the Newark-Palmers Green Advance.

The routeing was NCL-KGX on one train that arrived on time, connecting onto KGX-PAL which was delayed by 60 minutes+.

As I was delayed 60 minutes+, regardless of how many splits were used, I believe I should be entitled to compensation based on the whole journey-not just the third part of it.

On the basis of opinions so far though, maybe I am being very optimistic!

 

[John @ home]

In July I travelled Newcastle-Palmers Green on advance tickets split 3 ways: Newcastle-York, York-Newark & Newark-Palmers Green.

leyscjd's combination of tickets met the requirements of National Rail Conditions of Carriage Condition 19, so this was one journey from Newcastle to Palmers Green.

due to delays on the final leg of the journey (Kings Cross-Palmers Green), I was entitled to Delay Repay from First Capital Connect.

This entitlement arises from page 25 of FCC's Passenger’s Charter:

6.4 Compensation (Delay Repay)

A key feature of our Passenger’s Charter is to offer a transparent and fair compensation scheme for customers when train services are delayed, irrespective of what caused the delay. The scheme is called Delay Repay and applies in the same way to Season Ticket and non Season Ticket holders. The compensation that you can expect if you experience a delay is as follows:

• If your journey with First Capital Connect is delayed by 30-59 minutes, we will pay compensation to the value of at least 50% of the cost of a single ticket or 50% of the cost of either portion of a return ticket. By ‘portion’ we mean either the outward or return part of a return ticket

• If your journey with First Capital Connect is delayed by 60 minutes or more we will pay compensation to the value of at least 100% of the cost of a single ticket or 100% of the cost of either portion of a return ticket. By ‘portion’ we mean either the outward or return part of a return ticket

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/static/filemanager/passengers_charter_v5.pdf

Predictably they only sent vouchers to cover the third leg of the split.

I would not have predicted that. It does not correspond to my own experience. On four occasions, my family has claimed compensation for train delays when a combination of tickets were being used for one journey. In each case, compensation has been calculated by the train companies using the total cost of all the tickets which were combined to make the journey. But none of these journeys involved FCC - the train companies were Arriva Trains Wales, CrossCountry (twice) and East Coast.

I replied, copying a paragraph from an earlier post on this forum

Good. I'm glad you took our advice.

Their latest reply is no better: "I understand that you were in possession of a combination of tickets for different legs of your journey. Compensation is only payable on the portion of the journey with FCC. With a through ticket, you are covered for the entire journey"...

leyscjd has confirmed that vouchers for the Newark - Palmers Green element of the journey have been received. That appears to contradict FCC's statement that "Compensation is only payable on the portion of the journey with FCC".

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should include in my next letter?

As I see it, there are two issues:

1. Providing help to leyscjd to resolve this individual matter
   Given that FCC have already been approached twice, I think this is more likely to reach a satisfactory outcome if the next stage is discussed by private message rather than on an open forum. If you would like my assistance, please send me a PM with full correspondence and ticket details.
2. FCC's restriction in their Delay Repay scheme to the passenger's "journey with First Capital Connect"
   A corresponding restriction does not appear in:
   • Arriva Trains Wales Passenger Charter (but ATW do not yet operate Delay Repay - they have a different compensation scheme)
   • CrossCountry Passenger Charter, or
   • East Coast Passenger Charter
   I think this is indeed an appropriate subject for this forum to debate.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The delay was 60 minutes+ and they have provided compensation for 100 per cent of the cost of the Newark-Palmers Green Advance.

That hadn't been clear to me from the remark in the first post "Compensation is only payable on the portion of the journey with FCC"

On the basis of opinions so far though, maybe I am being very optimistic!

I think so.
To be fair, the terms are not, to my reading, unambiguous, and further compensation could be sought, but you may find more than a little resistance. John @ Home's anaysis and experience may encourage you.

 

[leyscjd]

I raised this with Passenger Focus but unsurprsingly they have sided with First Capital Connect.

To quote Passenger Focus, 'Where split tickets are held, each ticket is classed as a separate journey when it comes to compensation'.

I have written back asking where this is documented (it's not in either NRCOC of FCC's passenger charter). What hope is there when a supposedly neutral organisation defends the TOC's stance without good reason?

 

[yorkie]

I raised this with Passenger Focus but unsurprsingly they have sided with First Capital Connect.

To quote Passenger Focus, 'Where split tickets are held, each ticket is classed as a separate journey when it comes to compensation'.

I have written back asking where this is documented (it's not in either NRCOC of FCC's passenger charter). What hope is there when a supposedly neutral organisation defends the TOC's stance without good reason?

Try contacting them again, quote them Condition 19 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, and emphasise that it states you can make one "journey" on a "combination of tickets", and that the delay compensation schemes also refer to the term "journey".

If you don't get anywhere with this, you can PM me the name of the person who said that and details of the case, I could arrange for someone to have a constructive conversation with them.

Passenger Focus continue to disappoint. Perhaps one day they'll get someone in charge who will engage with us and ensure that passengers rights are defended, but until that day, they remain ineffective.