FCC sent me notice of intention to prosecute

[lyndhurst25]

Sorry for discussing around the subject of Blyelaw 18 and PFs - I didn't realise there was a similar thread from a few days ago. I'm sure the OP hasn't been confused too much.

To DaveNewcastle - that the regulations have exercised the minds of lawyers for years is probably the root of the problem - they are not written in plain English and are contained in multiple documents. And just because they are the basis of successful prosecutions in great numbers doesn't mean that they are fair in themselves or currently being applied proportionately by FCC.

To bnm - Grand Central are happy to "pick up the pieces for your poor planning or any delay that caused you to be late arriving at the station for the train you intended to catch" by selling all tickets on the train. I believe that it's called "customer service".

 

[jon0844]

I understand why a DOO operator needs to have different rules to one that has guards on board (even if they might only be in one part of the train in the case of multiple sets) but there needs to consistency in how you 'punish' people.

 

[bnm]

To bnm - Grand Central are happy to "pick up the pieces for your poor planning or any delay that caused you to be late arriving at the station for the train you intended to catch" by selling all tickets on the train. I believe that it's called "customer service".

I believe it's called a USP. How do you propose First Capital Connect do the same on an intensely worked commuter network where nearly every service is DOO?

 

[exile]

It's going to require some knowledge of the rail industry for a passenger who is used to buying on the train (Southern) to realise he can't on an FCC train given that most people will get on the first train that's going to their proposed destination. Consistency would be a good idea - that is, the same policy should apply to any train from a given station.

 

[causton]

To bnm - Grand Central are happy to "pick up the pieces for your poor planning or any delay that caused you to be late arriving at the station for the train you intended to catch" by selling all tickets on the train. I believe that it's called "customer service".

They're not really "customers" if they get on without paying and try to get a free ride though. I live on an FCC line and the harsh reality is, *nobody* seems to buy tickets at night... I know there are people who do it day in day out if they work night shifts, get the cheaper daytime-only bus there and the train back, people who go out every friday night and never buy a ticket, the hordes of people who I follow out of Finsbury Park tube, touch out and then jump on a train and get off within the Travelcard zones (who's going to buy a paper ticket if they were already using Oyster?) and I believe I am the only person I know (excluding people on this forum etc) who actually pays for their ticket on a regular basis.

This is exactly why FCC has to be harsh. They don't have people on every train, so instead of one guard selling 20 cheap tickets, they have RPIs come on once in a blue moon and charge whatever they can (usually PFs away but about 1/3 of the time the BTP are called or they are reported for prosecution IMO). Unfortunately that's the way it has to work in DOO land

 

[lyndhurst25]

I believe it's called a USP. How do you propose First Capital Connect do the same on an intensely worked commuter network where nearly every service is DOO?

PTT machines on trains?
allow pay at the destination?
e-ticketing by mobile phone?

In my opinion a late passenger who boards a train without a ticket (due to poor planning or more likely circumstances beyond his control) who is happy and willing to pay should be given the chance to buy a ticket or at worst a Penalty Fare. Posters at stations, notices on trains, FCC's website and the NRCoC all suggest that a PF would be issued in these circumstances. Why then are some people being threatened with Byelaw 18 prosecution by FCC for a first "offence"? Legal - maybe. Proportionate - I don't think so.

 

[island]

Most FCC services are DOO.

Also, are staff who hold PRIV cards in breach of the FCC "rules" when the type of ticket they require is not available form ticket machines (in cases where the ticket office is closed that is).

Yes. When the full range of tickets is not available the passenger is required to purchase some sort of ticket or permit to travel which will allow him or her to commence his or her journey and then buy the right ticket on train or at the destination. The amount already paid will be deducted from the cost of the right ticket.