FCC Ticket Inspectors - ID?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by andyr, 25 Nov 2011.

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  1. andyr

    andyr New Member

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    I've got a question about ticket inspector ID.

    I have gotten a little tired of the rather aggresive group of FCC ticket inspectors at the top of the escalators at Moorgate, so this morning I very politely asked to see some ID before handing over my ticket. The inspector balked at this and despite having an ID laminate on a lanyard around his neck (carefully turned backwards so as not to show his actual ID), he refused to do so.

    He simply pointed at a name tag on his shirt that only gave his first name (useless if you have any need to make a complaint) and said "that's all the ID you're going to see, now give me your ticket".

    So my question is, do I have the right to insist on seeing some proper ID to confirm he really is a FCC employee - perhaps with a photo or full name or maybe even just a badge number, just in case a complaint needs to be made?

    I didn't want to push it this morning without knowing whether this was within my rights though, as these guys are pretty aggressive!
     
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  3. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    You know if it was the outward portion of a return they shouldn't be retaining it anyway...

    If it's G4S Staff, than expect idiots, (and those who retain all tickets and then tout them outside piccadilly later in the day!)
     
  4. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    Yes, they should be displaying and showing on request, an authorised collector ID, this is what our Revenue staff do. Whether the name badge they wear is representatitve of their real name though, that's quite another thing...! ;)
     
  5. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Have you written to FCC management? You'll get a definitive answer as to what ID should be shown/carried, and they might well be interested to know that their employees are refusing to show ID.

    You're lucky they didn't Taser you, judging by some of the FCC stories one hears :D
     
  6. andyr

    andyr New Member

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    Cheers.

    I might add that he was demanding my ticket for inspection, not to retain. Regardless, given how aggressively they now follow procedures to victimise passengers I was very surprised by his claim that I didn't have the right to just see his ID.

    I'll try not backing down so easily next time and politely insist on seeing some proper ID. Hopefully I won't get arrested!
     
  7. amcluesent

    amcluesent Member

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    http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23731140-fare-dodgers.do

    Under the Penalty Fares Rules 2002, sections 5 (2) and (3), only an "authorised collector ...individually authorised by or on behalf of the operator of that train" is allowed to collect penalty fares. Not all train guards and excess ticket office staff are authorised collectors. You have the right to ask them to produce the special identification document which proves that they are. (This also helps to return a measure of the "embarrassment factor", which some collectors use to get travellers to pay up.)

    Check also whether the person asking you for a penalty has been authorised by the operator whose train you travelled on. At stations served by more than one train company, even where they both have penalty fares schemes, it may be that the people on the ticket barrier are authorised by one operator but not by the operator you used.

    Edit - I see OP has found this...
     
  8. MrMild

    MrMild New Member

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    I've had this exact same issue with rude, aggressive FCC RPI's refusing to show me their ID. I suspect that they are reluctant to show thier ID because they want to make it difficult for passengers to complain.

    They may have actually committed a criminal offence under the Railway Byelaws by refusing to provide ID on request.

    Byelaw 24(3) provides:

    An authorised person who is exercising any power conferred on him by any of these Byelaws shall produce a form of identification when requested to do so and such identification shall state the name of his employer and shall contain a means of identifying the authorised person.

    I say may have committed an offence because the Byelaws don't say exactly what form of ID is required and arguably, a name badge might be sufficient. Also, this Byelaw only covers the situation when an RPI is exercising powers under the Byelaws, ie you can't just go up to them and demand ID.

    Whatever the legal position, its clearly bad customer service and quite frankly any RPI who is doing his job properly shouldn't have a problem showing ID when asked.
     
  9. barrykas

    barrykas Established Member

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    As written, it could be argued that a company name badge should be considered as valid ID. It has, after all, got the employing company's name on it and a name by which the employee can be identified.

    Personally, I'd prefer to see their Authorised Collector's ID in PF areas, which gives you their Collector's ID number as well.

    Cheers,

    Barry
     
  10. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    Can the employee be identified by a name badge?
    Do FCC not have two people with the same first names working for them?
    It also doesn't link the badge to the person, it could be anybody's badge - that's not exactly an unusual situation.

    A clue is the fact that they are given proper identification!
     
  11. amcluesent

    amcluesent Member

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    If the PFI is an ar*e and refuses to show ID while blocking your way and demanding papers, you could do a citizens arrest for causing intentional harassment, alarm or distress (section 154 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994)
     
  12. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    So fighting fire with fire?

    :roll:
     
  13. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Lots of FCC RPIs (including the one that bothered me) don't even wear their name badge. FCC has told me on numerous occasions that they MUST wear their badges, but the same people often don't - so clearly don't care for the rules.

    Is it any wonder that those who show contempt to their own company often show contempt to the general public?

    On the other side of the coin, many do wear badges very clearly shown and wear ID badges on lanyards that are easy to see (whether you ask or not). Funnily enough, these are usually the more professional ones that do their job properly. I'd say there are many more good ones than bad ones, but when you encounter a bad one then it hardly matters if they're in the minority!
     
  14. scotsman

    scotsman Established Member

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    Not in Scotland!

    1) We're a civilised country, we don't do PFs ;)
    2) Any member of the public can make an arrest where a crime has been, or is about to be, committed. The exception to this is breach of the peace (essentially causing intentional harassment, alarm or distress)


    In any case, if you tried that stunt I imagine you'd be arrested and charged with assault. I can't even see how it's intentional harassment either, you're legally obliged to comply.
     
  15. island

    island Established Member

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    Not in England and Wales either. Citizen's arrests can only be performed for indictable offences.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Why not?
     
  16. notadriver

    notadriver Established Member

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    A bit off topic but are all railway staff required to show IDs if asked by the general public - even drivers?
     
  17. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Your return ticket is only valid with a stamped outward portion.
     
  18. Brucey

    Brucey Member

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    Stamped? I can't remember the last time my out portion was even looked at, let alone stamped (or squiggled with a biro in the case of some TOCs).
     
  19. Bill Badger

    Bill Badger Member

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    Surely not. What happens when the barrier retains your ticket at the end of your Outward journey, stamped or not?
     
  20. 313103

    313103 On Moderation

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    If a member of the public asked for me to show my id, i ask them for what purpose. If something has occured like a delay or incident i show them my photocard that has all the details they require.

    I will refuse to show it if someone just comes up out of the blue and says i want to see your id, as they would have no reason to ask and could say that i said this, that and the other.

    I cannot speak for FCC inspectors but on LOROL the inspectors carry id with picture (actually as do all Conductors and Drivers). However i can often understand why they may treat people as though they are lying, i spent about 2 hours with them one evening recently and you should hear some of the excuses that passengers come up with. One passenger even said look i dont want a PF as i they already know my address, the same person said you lot are never here. To me that is intertmating that it is regular for this person to travel without a ticket. Then you get those that say oh i didnt know you didnt need to touch in your oyster card. Perhaps some passengers should spend some time with a group of RPIs it would be an enlighening experience.
     
  21. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    There is no obligation to even use the outward proton.
     
  22. Greenback

    Greenback Emeritus Moderator

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    I'm afraid that is not correct.
     
  23. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    It does not have to be stamped. Also, the obligation to retain the outward portion is not stated anywhere the passenger might reasonably be able to read it...
     
  24. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I believe this to be a wind-up and you have all fallen for it. :lol:
     
  25. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    This came in with the facebook craze - an FCC employee allegedly received threatening facebook messages - can understand the concern sadly.
     
  26. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    Wrong.
     
  27. Yew

    Yew Established Member

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    It's the other way round no? The out is only valid with an unused return portion?
     
  28. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    I know of a case where a guard was looked up in a phonebook and had a visitor to his house.

    We have first name only on badges, if I am asked my surname I say Smith, I can be identified by first name and service I'm working (and the fact that the letter will start "The incredibly tall, dark and handsome guard I dealt with" and continue something along the lines of "was a total b****** and would not believe my cock & bull story I had spent minutes perfecting to justify my lack of ticket/railcard/reservation etc..." <D)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Correct
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2011
  29. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    If you look anything like your avatar, I'd imagine a description would be quite easy to give!
     
  30. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    Tall, pink, and stands around a lot on one leg? :p
     
  31. Tracky

    Tracky Member

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    I often ask the Nantwich-Manchester Standard Open Return holders for their clean return part... Many cannot provide it...
     
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