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Felixstowe-Nuneaton

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GB

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I don't think the capacity increase from getting rid of the passenger service would really equate to that of doubling the line from Trimley.
 
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Flywaver

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Its a real pity that XC havent milked this upgrade by getting line speed increases in the obvious places. Managed to secure a whopping increase from 30 to 35mph at Whitticare :lol:
But there is scope for 100mph Nuneaton - Croft and 90mph Uffington to Peterborough...I think ill be retired before they raise the 75mph across the Fens...:roll:
 

a good off

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By very nature of the Fen track formation I don't think 90 or 100mph will ever happen. It would involve lots of £££ and then constant lifting and packing as it sinks.
 

Flywaver

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By very nature of the Fen track formation I don't think 90 or 100mph will ever happen. It would involve lots of £££ and then constant lifting and packing as it sinks.

Some of it yes.. The Lynn road has 90mph plus we have a small section on the Down near Dimmocks Cote at 90.. Why not 80-85mph then? I understand it's not time savings but if current timetable kept it would be useful when delayed... Providing Cambs power box don't ruin it... :roll::lol:
 

a good off

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I was think more of the March road but good point made. Signal spacing and braking distance is probably a lot to do with it too.
 

Rugd1022

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Its a real pity that XC havent milked this upgrade by getting line speed increases in the obvious places. Managed to secure a whopping increase from 30 to 35mph at Whitticare :lol:
But there is scope for 100mph Nuneaton - Croft and 90mph Uffington to Peterborough...I think ill be retired before they raise the 75mph across the Fens...:roll:

35mph through the curves at Whitacre is as high as safety allows I guess, even at 30mph you can feel the 'pull' of your wagons 'across' the curve as you take power for the climb up to Arley, any higher and you'd be tipping over due to the physical forces on the couplings. Hope that makes some sort of sense.... anyway, that extra 5mph can make all the difference for getting a move on when there's a unit on your tail. On most of our Heavyhaul jobs, our average speed between Nuneaton and Water Orton evens out at about 35mph anyway, despite the fast bit dropping down from Arley to Daw Mill with a load on. By the time you're up to 60 you'll be on the warning board magnet for the 30 slack round the corner at Shustoke, then it's a slow crawl to Water Orton and beyond ;)
 

The Planner

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Its a real pity that XC havent milked this upgrade by getting line speed increases in the obvious places. Managed to secure a whopping increase from 30 to 35mph at Whitticare :lol:

Passive provision for 90mph from Abbey Jn to Whitacre and a reduction in headway from 5 minutes to 3. Not all bad.
 

PhilipW

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a) spending £30m+ on another track for an extra 20 freight trains a day

£30 million plus to redouble about 5 miles of new track between Soham and Ely.

My, my what is the track going to be made of --- Platinum ?

Welcome to the talking telephone numbers world of Network Rail.
 

GB

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Soham - Ely is not being re doubled....Trimely - Levington is....eventually!
 

Cherry_Picker

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35mph through the curves at Whitacre is as high as safety allows I guess, even at 30mph you can feel the 'pull' of your wagons 'across' the curve as you take power for the climb up to Arley, any higher and you'd be tipping over due to the physical forces on the couplings. Hope that makes some sort of sense.... anyway, that extra 5mph can make all the difference for getting a move on when there's a unit on your tail. On most of our Heavyhaul jobs, our average speed between Nuneaton and Water Orton evens out at about 35mph anyway, despite the fast bit dropping down from Arley to Daw Mill with a load on. By the time you're up to 60 you'll be on the warning board magnet for the 30 slack round the corner at Shustoke, then it's a slow crawl to Water Orton and beyond ;)

There could be differential speed restrictions there, but my understanding of the problem with low linespeed in that part of the world is that there are mining tunnels from Daw Mill underneath the railway line. Given that Daw Mill managed to sink the M6 by mining underneath it I would not be surprised if the stories of mines under the track are true.
 

a good off

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Soham - Ely is not being re doubled....Trimely - Levington is....eventually!

Soham - Ely was never double track in the first place. The LNER were going to do it apparently but then decided against it. From the plans I've seen they are only putting back the loop at Ely Dock Jn, not doubling throughout.
 

The Planner

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Should technically just be a sign change, nothing to stop it after the re-signalling.
 
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Passive provision for 90mph from Abbey Jn to Whitacre and a reduction in headway from 5 minutes to 3. Not all bad.

Excellent stuff. I've thought for some time the route is capable of at least 85mph. Now can NR please sort out Water Orton, Leicester trains could go through at 100mph if done properly not the dreadful 30mph<(

To improve Whitacre requires a bit of land take and rebuilding the bridges either side to allow the track to be slewed.
 

TheBigD

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I doubt very much that a 170 would get anywhere near 90 climbing from Whitacre (currently 30mph) to Arley Tunnel. They struggle to get to 70mph now.

Not a problem going the other way downhill!
 

The Planner

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Excellent stuff. I've thought for some time the route is capable of at least 85mph. Now can NR please sort out Water Orton, Leicester trains could go through at 100mph if done properly not the dreadful 30mph<(

Never going to happen, the original plan was de-scoped massively so you are stuck with Water Orton for decades. What they should have done was re-instate the fourth track down to Castle Bromwich, it is ridiculous the way we have to thread the freight through there.
 

RichmondCommu

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Never going to happen, the original plan was de-scoped massively so you are stuck with Water Orton for decades. What they should have done was re-instate the fourth track down to Castle Bromwich, it is ridiculous the way we have to thread the freight through there.

Just out of interest when was the fourth track taken out of service?
 

Flywaver

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There is a sinking signal gantry on the Down before Daw Mill. Pretty sure the line speed will stay at 70.. The re-signalling is for capacity. First section in action Abbey jct to Coleshill end of this month? Cambridge now has some signal changes. Can't understand why they have to have a T for Through Road when just main aspect is sufficient..
Roll on winter when it gets below freezing and the 170s need assistance due to Main Res packing up.Had this last year.I wasnt the only Driver...Got help from another 170.. This time we will need adaptor couplings for 66s... :D
 

Bald Rick

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Soham - Ely was never double track in the first place. The LNER were going to do it apparently but then decided against it. From the plans I've seen they are only putting back the loop at Ely Dock Jn, not doubling throughout.

The £30m is for doubling the Felixstowe branch - this was never double track either.

Soham to Ely will be doubled. Just not announced yet. May well be £30m as well, as there will need to be some serious earthworks to keep it from sinking.
 

Flywaver

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I've been told that in Rail magazine it's mentioned about improvements for XC on the route!?
Is there a link or is this found only in Rail?
 

mappman1000

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Because the port are on the hook for it, know it is expensive, and don't want to pay.

But it raises a good (hypothetical) question.

What would benefit UK plc the most -
a) spending £30m+ on another track for an extra 20 freight trains a day, or,
b) replacing the Felixstowe passenger service with a bus to free up the same capacity

If B every happened that'd be disgaceful!

The port has recently payed in part for major roadworks at two junctions on the A14 and has also expanded the size of its terminal considerably. So I don't see why they won't double the track.
 

Old Timer

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And Network Rail continue to spin that maintenance and track quality has improved under their stewardship.

Thank you for a photograph to prove how laughable that NR spin is.
 

sprinterguy

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And Network Rail continue to spin that maintenance and track quality has improved under their stewardship.

Thank you for a photograph to prove how laughable that NR spin is.
Bear in mind that that photo has been taken with one heck of a telephoto lens: As far as I can work out, if that photo is on the Manea-Ely section, then the Turbostar in the distance is easily over a mile away from the photographer. Just look at the "wiggle" in the sections of rail lying in the four foot: I've never, ever seen it that pronounced in reality (I'd be deeply concerned if I did!): Each one of those sections is probably tens of metres long, as you well know.

I've seen a similar shot of one of Stratfords' 47/4s on the Liverpool Street to Norwich line back in the eighties, so the sorts of "rollercoaster" effect portrayed by that picture isn't necessarily telling on the condition of the track.

And new rails ready to be put in place during an upcoming engineering possession are well in evidence in that photo!
 

The Planner

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It does seem like a long long shot, there are 4 signals in view there, so it has got to be well over a mile.
 

Bald Rick

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That's more than 3 miles you can see there, just working on the signal sections.

The fens are currently the driest they have been in a generation, it's hardly surprising the track has moved.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Agreed - a very dry November is not helping , and the water table is well down - even some concerns about water rationing.

This will undoubtedly cause formation problems , - and later on bankslides if short , sharp rainfall comes into play.

Running railways is not just about trains eh Bald Rick ?
 
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