FGW Adelante now in passenger service

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W-on-Sea

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From today's Oxford Mail

"And a Class 180 Adelante train operated a First Great Western passenger service for the first time in more than three years this morning.

After two months of crew training trips, an Adelante worked the 11.20am service from London to Great Malvern, via Oxford and the Cotswold Line. It was also due to work the 5.18pm semi-fast service from London to Oxford, serving Cholsey, Didcot Parkway and Radley.

Five Adelante trains are being brought back into use by FGW over the next two months to ease overcrowding, due to growing passenger traffic."

And indeed this was so. I think it was 180103 (although it didn't appear to have any numbers on the front of the train), at least on the later of these two services.

Does anyone know if these workings are to be maintained on a daily basis? I guess the other units will be brought into service soon? (180106 has been about on test on the line on a very regular basis in recent weeks)

My first time on an Adelante, and what a lovely train.
 
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ChristopherJ

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I know that reliability was a factor for FGW to return the 180 Adelante fleet to Angel Trains, however, am I also correct that another factor for their return was because of their lack of seating capacity in comparison to a more standardised HST? If so, then what comes around goes around... I believe this is the reason why First Hull Trains swapped for a uniformed fleet of 180 Adelante (with 5 carriages) over the 222 Pioneers (with 4 carriages).

I haven't been on a 180 Adelante for years, have the hydrodynamic brakes been activated now? I remember the fleet suffered from horrendous brake squeal when in braking from high speed because of the use of the air brake only - causing the friction pads to loose wear and emit an horrendous noise. Like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKiFvUVsV9I
 

TEW

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It was 180103. Currently planned for the following trains to be 180s Mondays-Fridays:
1W29 1120 PAD-GMV
1P57 1426 GMV-PAD
1D53 1718 PAD-OXF
1P75 1931 OXF-PAD

There is still a morning test trip to Oxford as well. More 180s will come into service as more return from refurbishment with a full service with 5 units planned by September.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I know that reliability was a factor for FGW to return the 180 Adelante fleet to Angel Trains, however, am I also correct that another factor for their return was because of their lack of capacity in comparison to a more standard HST? If so, then what comes around goes around... I believe this is the reason why First Hull Trains swapped for a uniformed fleet of 180 Adelante (with 5 carriages) over the 222 Pioneers (with 4 carriages).

I haven't been on a 180 Adelante for years, have the hydrodynamic brakes been activated now? I remember the fleet suffered from horrendous brake squeal when in braking from very high speed because of the use of the air brake only.

Still got very squealy brakes and 180103 today was running with one engine out of use.
 

fgwrich

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Still got very squealy brakes and 180103 today was running with one engine out of use.

Which BBC South today tried to make it look as if it had shut down enroute, outside reading and causing delay :roll: And then compared their reliability to SWTs Diesel Fleet, fair comparison then?!
 

jon0844

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Only one engine down? Pah! As long as nothing was on fire, I would say it was working fine.
 

TEW

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Which BBC South today tried to make it look as if it had shut down enroute, outside reading and causing delay :roll: And then compared their reliability to SWTs Diesel Fleet, fair comparison then?!

Oh dear, there were a number of delays Paddington-Reading today. The first run was about 15 minutes late because of a bridge strike.
 

route:oxford

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Which BBC South today tried to make it look as if it had shut down enroute, outside reading and causing delay :roll: And then compared their reliability to SWTs Diesel Fleet, fair comparison then?!

Should have compared them to the reliability of the 22X series really. Not sure if that is better or worse than comparing to 159s.

I do like the Adelantes. Just a shame they weren't specified as diesel electrics.
 

CC 72100

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In all fairness to FGW, it was a clever move bringing them back. More extra capacity, and they refurbished them, despite them being only 10 years old. I'm sure we can imagine a couple of TOCs who presented with stock of that age and condition would stick a couple of stickers on it and may do a spot of painting here and there...

I'll admit I'm an admirer of FGW, but I think they've done a good job on this one. :)
 

IanXC

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In all fairness to FGW, it was a clever move bringing them back. More extra capacity, and they refurbished them, despite them being only 10 years old. I'm sure we can imagine a couple of TOCs who presented with stock of that age and condition would stick a couple of stickers on it and may do a spot of painting here and there...

I'll admit I'm an admirer of FGW, but I think they've done a good job on this one. :)

Also after they've let Old Oak Common learn how to fix and deal with them using Hull Trains stock.

I know what you mean about the kind of TOC who'd add a couple of stickers and be done with it (I'm looking at you Grand Central!).
 

Schnellzug

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i don't know if it's the mechanics that are so troublesome, or if it is why it should be exactly, because they have the same engines as 220-222s, don't they, and the hydraulic transmission is surely well proven. I wonder if it's more Alstom's build quality concerning the electronics and so on.
 

jimm

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It was 180103. Currently planned for the following trains to be 180s Mondays-Fridays:
1W29 1120 PAD-GMV
1P57 1426 GMV-PAD
1D53 1718 PAD-OXF
1P75 1931 OXF-PAD

There is still a morning test trip to Oxford as well. More 180s will come into service as more return from refurbishment with a full service with 5 units planned by September.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Still got very squealy brakes and 180103 today was running with one engine out of use.

Full service, with four daily diagrams to cover all current weekday Turbo workings west of Moreton-in-Marsh, except the morning halts train into Oxford (and its outbound working from Moreton to Worcester) is due at the end of July, just in time for the Olympics. 103, 106 and 108 have all been facelifted by Wabtec in Kilmarnock and given reliability modifications elsewhere.

180104 is in the workshop in Scotland now, with just 102 to follow very soon - 102 worked the driver training duties last Friday, still in its original livery, minus FGW branding, See http://www.hondawanderer.com/180102_Bruern_2012.htm there is also a pic of 103 at Kingham this afternoon at the same site

The faulty engine was fixed during the day and all five were running smoothly when 103 worked the 17.18 Paddington to Oxford and 19.31 return.
 

BOSCH

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Also after they've let Old Oak Common learn how to fix and deal with them using Hull Trains stock.

I know what you mean about the kind of TOC who'd add a couple of stickers and be done with it (I'm looking at you Grand Central!).

So when Hull Trains let OOC do the maintenance their MPC fell drastically !! The 180's at Heaton recently recorded over 27000mpc thanks to maintenance team there ! We dont just "stick stickers on and be done with it" thank you very much !! <( Oh and btw,that mpc for the GC 180'S was one of the best recorded !!
 

IanXC

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So when Hull Trains let OOC do the maintenance their MPC fell drastically !! The 180's at Heaton recently recorded over 27000mpc thanks to maintenance team there ! We dont just "stick stickers on and be done with it" thank you very much !! <( Oh and btw,that mpc for the GC 180'S was one of the best recorded !!

I was highlighting the fact that OOC will have gained experience dealing with 180s while looking after HT's stock, and how that was to FGW's advantage! I have no idea how well or otherwise Heaton deal with maintenance of GC's 180s, although I think I'm right in saying the hire ins to HT haven't failed.

For the record I think I'd rather have a significantly more reliable unit than a refurbished one. I don't think you'll disagree that in comparison with First's refurbished 180s the GC ones really have just had a few stickers and such.
 

jimm

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Don't think working on HT's fleet will have told Old Oak staff much, since they were the 180 experts anyway after maintaining them during their previous FGW career - which was why sister company Hull Trains gave the work to Old Oak once it switched to using 180s.

bosch, maybe you could tell us where you get that figure from exactly? The rail industry now uses a measure called miles per technical incident (MTIN) to measure reliability. The June Modern Railways has tables detailing recent MTIN figures for all the passenger stock in use on the network and GC's 180s recorded 5,589 MTIN, while HT's were at 9,437, ahead of FGW's HST fleet at 7,417.
 

Pumbaa

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MPC are still recorded though, as are MP5MA. All are used by depots and companies for differing purposes. When comparing cross industry, it is only then that the MTIN matters. Most TOCs use MPC internally on bulletins; I doubt many will have briefed their 'frontline' staff on the change.
 

scotsman

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bosch, maybe you could tell us where you get that figure from exactly? The rail industry now uses a measure called miles per technical incident (MTIN) to measure reliability. The June Modern Railways has tables detailing recent MTIN figures for all the passenger stock in use on the network and GC's 180s recorded 5,589 MTIN, while HT's were at 9,437, ahead of FGW's HST fleet at 7,417.

Bosch is a Driver for Grand Central, so he is very likely to: a) Have got the stats "from the horse's mouth" and; b) Know the terms you refer to already
 

Skie

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They dont use that measure for the Adelantes, instead it is MPF (Miles per fire) :)
 

jimm

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MPC are still recorded though, as are MP5MA. All are used by depots and companies for differing purposes. When comparing cross industry, it is only then that the MTIN matters. Most TOCs use MPC internally on bulletins; I doubt many will have briefed their 'frontline' staff on the change.

And I was comparing cross-industry, giving the recognised reliability measure for both operators, whereas all bosch gave was a figure for GC with no comparable figure for HT - context is everything and the MTIN numbers for 180s suggest all is not quite as rosy in the GC garden as that mpc figure might indicate.
 

ainsworth74

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We dont just "stick stickers on and be done with it" thank you very much !!

I'm sorry BOSCH but I do have to agree with IanXC here. I've been on both a refurbished HT 180 and a GC 180 hired in to HT and the difference was stark, I'd say a refurbished HT 180 is one of the best passenger interiors on long distance stock around whilst the GC 180 is nice enough it really hasn't changed much since they were built around ten years ago. I'm happy to be proved wrong however, so what exactly have GC done to their 180s bearing in mind that HT gave theirs a full refurb?
 

Royston Vasey

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I'm sorry BOSCH but I do have to agree with IanXC here. I've been on both a refurbished HT 180 and a GC 180 hired in to HT and the difference was stark, I'd say a refurbished HT 180 is one of the best passenger interiors on long distance stock around whilst the GC 180 is nice enough it really hasn't changed much since they were built around ten years ago. I'm happy to be proved wrong however, so what exactly have GC done to their 180s bearing in mind that HT gave theirs a full refurb?

That isn't really the issue, the GC interiors are fine, not particularly old, the issue is reliability not coordinating seat covers...
 

sprinterguy

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That isn't really the issue, the GC interiors are fine, not particularly old, the issue is reliability not coordinating seat covers...
The interiors were knackered when GC first got hold of them: The seat fabric was very worn, and the reading lights were either hanging out of the ceiling or missing altogether on the services I travelled on. Fortunately, they've now done a very good job of smartening them up, even if it is only to return them to their "as new" condition.
 

Royston Vasey

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The interiors were knackered when GC first got hold of them: The seat fabric was very worn, and the reading lights were either hanging out of the ceiling or missing altogether on the services I travelled on. Fortunately, they've now done a very good job of smartening them up, even if it is only to return them to their "as new" condition.

Indeed, but my point is that the interiors are no indicator of the quality of mechanical work. For example, back in the day, an unrefurbished HST with newly MTU'ed power cars may well be scruffy but would almost certainly get there on time.
 

sprinterguy

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Indeed, but my point is that the interiors are no indicator of the quality of mechanical work. For example, back in the day, an unrefurbished HST with newly MTU'ed power cars may well be scruffy but would almost certainly get there on time.
I can only agree with that: Sorry for missing your point!
 

Old Hill Bank

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It was 180103. Currently planned for the following trains to be 180s Mondays-Fridays:
1W29 1120 PAD-GMV
1P57 1426 GMV-PAD
1D53 1718 PAD-OXF
1P75 1931 OXF-PAD

There is still a morning test trip to Oxford as well. More 180s will come into service as more return from refurbishment with a full service with 5 units planned by September.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Still got very squealy brakes and 180103 today was running with one engine out of use.

So I take it that's what failed at Foregate Street this afternoon and screwed everything up!!
 

TEW

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It was a track circuit failure and the 180 got stuck, nothing to do with the 180 itself.
 

ainsworth74

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That isn't really the issue, the GC interiors are fine, not particularly old, the issue is reliability not coordinating seat covers...

Perhaps but the interior is still somewhat important though I agree that reliability is probably in the grand scheme of things far more vital than getting the interior to look nice (though I stand by what I said in that GC have basically just put stickers on the inside and left it at that).

Though out of curiosity what mechanical work have GC carried out themselves? I'm aware that Angel took the lead in a class wide package of reliability enhancements recently but what have GC done off their own bat?
 

thehstman

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Will the 180s run to Swindon, Cheltenham Spa and Gloucester if they are routed that way to Worcester and Great Malvern?
 
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