FGW at Paddington still getting evening Off Peak validity spectacularly wrong.

[221129]

And what if you are at Reading going to South Wales - is it a case of tough luck you will just have to wait for the next South Wales train an hour later?

Given that it was full on leaving Paddington laving people behind you wouldn't be able to board it anyway...

 

[PermitToTravel]

Well, in practice selfish Reading commuters will be getting off, and pretending that they won't be to punish them punishes legitimate Readingers going to South Wales even harder.

 

[MikeWh]

Well, in practice selfish Reading commuters will be getting off, and pretending that they won't be to punish them punishes legitimate Readingers going to South Wales even harder.

Would it be at all possible to route the train into a platform at Reading where any passengers alighting would have to go through a barrier and be issued a penalty fare of some sort, based on the return from Reading to Swindon and back maybe?

 

[bb21]

Would it be at all possible to route the train into a platform at Reading where any passengers alighting would have to go through a barrier and be issued a penalty fare of some sort, based on the return from Reading to Swindon and back maybe?

Not any that I can think of, also issuing people with a fare to Swindon when they have not travelled there is likely to cause more grief than anticipated, and not just from the commuters themselves. Is there even any legal basis for doing so?

It is possible to do this on arrival at Swindon I think.

 

[SickyNicky]

Well, in practice selfish Reading commuters will be getting off, and pretending that they won't be to punish them punishes legitimate Readingers going to South Wales even harder.

They wouldn't once they'd had a few unintended journeys to Swindon!

 

[NSEFAN]

They wouldn't once they'd had a few unintended journeys to Swindon!

Ask Flamingo about Fridays-only pick-up only calls at Reading, and how many arguments he's had with pax when the Reading call was canned once the train had left Paddington!

 

[miami]

Not any that I can think of, also issuing people with a fare to Swindon when they have not travelled there is likely to cause more grief than anticipated, and not just from the commuters themselves. Is there even any legal basis for doing so?

It is possible to do this on arrival at Swindon I think.

Could they not stop selling Reading-London any permitted season tickets, and instead sell "Route no peak HST".

Looking at the conditions
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46571.aspx

You can use your Season Ticket up to and including its expiry date for any number of journeys between the stations and/or within the zone(s) shown on it at any time of day. It may be used at intermediate stations, and on any permitted route, unless a route or any other restrictions are specified on the ticket. Details are available where these tickets are issued.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Routes can be by TOC or geographic, there is no official[1] scope for a route like that.

What they *could* do is offer a cheaper "off peak" season ticket with restrictions per regular Off Peaks, i.e. allowing Turbos but not HSTs. But I think the unrestricted one has to exist, and the fare is regulated.

Personally, I'd just ensure the new electric services are adequate (12 car, sufficient frequency) and put u/s on the peak HSTs at Reading like was done at Milton Keynes Central to reasonably good effect.

[1] GTR seem to think there is, of course...

 

[island]

The GWR 800s will be in 5-car sets so 12-car trains won't be a thing.

Whilst we're on the topic, once multiple units are running they could enforce pick-up only by starting five coaches at Paddington and five more from Reading, attaching at Reading and not unlocking the coaches from Paddington there.

 

[infobleep]

They sometimes run a relief train originating at Reading; otherwise, it is as though the train were cancelled as respects ex-Reading passengers.

Why can't they run the relief from Reading all the time? There must be demand surely or they wouldn't need longer trains going forward.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[_ollie_]

As part of the May timetable change there is going to be a Friday only relief service (my understanding is that we're unable to do it the whole week) http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C44196/2016/05/20

 

[Bletchleyite]

The GWR 800s will be in 5-car sets so 12-car trains won't be a thing.

I'm not talking about 800s, I'm talking about the commuter EMUs which I understand (possibly wrongly?) will be 4x20m.

 

[island]

Why can't they run the relief from Reading all the time? There must be demand surely or they wouldn't need longer trains going forward.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

I imagine there isn't always the stock to run another full HST.

 

[BestWestern]

I'm not talking about 800s, I'm talking about the commuter EMUs which I understand (possibly wrongly?) will be 4x20m.

The Reading regulars won't touch the EMUs. They want to be on the fast trains. Hence the problem will continue to exist exactly as it does today.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Reading regulars won't touch the EMUs. They want to be on the fast trains. Hence the problem will continue to exist exactly as it does today.

My point is that they should not be allowed to choose, because it really messes up the operation, requiring the provision of excessive overcapacity for a short section of an IC run or causing severe overcrowding. There should be fast EMUs and there should be no commuter traffic on the ICs.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm not talking about 800s, I'm talking about the commuter EMUs which I understand (possibly wrongly?) will be 4x20m.

NR have just issued a contract to increase platform lengths for 4, 8 and 12 x 20m EMUs services on both the reliefs and the mains. "Thames Valley Electric Multiple Unit Capability Works", on pp 102/3 of the March update to the CP5 enhancement plans, gives the whole list of 43 platforms to be altered, these are just the ones needed for 12 car EMU services:

Slough – Platforms 2, 3, 4 and 5.
Maidenhead – Platforms 1, 2 ,3, 4 and 5.
Twyford – Platforms 1, 2 and 3.
Didcot - Platform 3 – funded by IEP but still delivers 12 car EMU capability

The notes section for the same project, has this summary:

4 and 8 car train sets are planned to operate on the Relief Line suburban Services
 8 and 12 car train sets are planned to operate on the Main Line peak and off Peak services as well as the Main Line semi fast peak hour services
 12 car trains may also operate on the Relief Lines at times of planned and unplanned perturbation
 4 car services will operate on the branch lines

That is all the evidence needed for 12 car 387s running a Paddington to Didcot mainline service in the peaks, you'd hope aimed at commuters...

 

[bb21]

My point is that they should not be allowed to choose, because it really messes up the operation, requiring the provision of excessive overcapacity for a short section of an IC run or causing severe overcrowding. There should be fast EMUs and there should be no commuter traffic on the ICs.

You want to restrict commuters' choices and tell them not to get on certain trains? Good luck with that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You want to restrict commuters' choices and tell them not to get on certain trains? Good luck with that.

It is done on the WCML and it works. There is a lot of whining about it in the local Press, but people comply with it and the ICs don't, by and large, get overcrowded (except where VT get greedy).

 

[Agent_c]

You want to restrict commuters' choices and tell them not to get on certain trains? Good luck with that.

Route: Not HS1?

 

[yorkie]

Could they not stop selling Reading-London any permitted season tickets, and instead sell "Route no peak HST".

Not TSA or NRCoC compliant.

So, it'd be just like the non-complaint GTR fares; many people would accept the non-compliant routeing, but those 'in the know' would use the ticket in accordance with the Conditions, and - if charged - would have to be refunded, to avoid the company getting into trouble.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Route: Not HS1?

Is a geographical routeing, so is within the rules.

By all means build a new high(er) speed line to Reading, and route tickets accordingly...

 

[infobleep]

I imagine there isn't always the stock to run another full HST.

So is it just luck that they had stock for a Friday relief. Could they not buy another HST? Didn't they buy some in the past?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[swt_passenger]

So is it just luck that they had stock for a Friday relief. Could they not buy another HST? Didn't they buy some in the past?

They can tweak maintenance cycles to gain an extra set on a Friday for a short period of a few months, perhaps by putting some maintenance off until Sundays (hypothetically). Doing the same thing 5 days a week wouldn't be possible.

If you happen to know where there's a spare HST coaching set knocking about perhaps someone might be interested - but not for one service per week...

 

[Rich McLean]

And what if you are at Reading going to South Wales - is it a case of tough luck you will just have to wait for the next South Wales train an hour later?

In theory, no Reading passengers should be on that train, so you wouldn't by able to board at Reading for that reason, You would have to wait for a later train, same as if a full and standing bus drove past a bus stop

 

[yorkie]

In theory, no Reading passengers should be on that train, so you wouldn't by able to board at Reading for that reason, You would have to wait for a later train, same as if a full and standing bus drove past a bus stop

Indeed. Reading passengers should accept that some trains should be non-stop out of major London terminals for distances of 100 miles or more.

 

[FenMan]

Indeed. Reading passengers should accept that some trains should be non-stop out of major London terminals for distances of 100 miles or more.

But it's not just Reading passengers. It'd be passengers from:

Reading, Heathrow Airport, Gatwick Airport, Slough, Maidenhead, Staines, Bracknell, Wokingham, Farnborough, Aldershot, Camberley/Blackwater, Guildford, Dorking, Redhill, Woking, Weybridge, Petersfield, Haslemere, Basingstoke, Newbury and a long list of other stations. Putting the airport traffic on one side, that's still a huge catchment area.

I would guess that GWR makes sufficient money from long distance tickets routed via Reading that any thoughts of running a significant proportion of peak time services fast through Reading would be quickly discarded.

The WCML example of splitting between Virgin WC and London Midland works because there is no major railhub on that line 30 miles from London.

 

[bb21]

It is done on the WCML and it works. There is a lot of whining about it in the local Press, but people comply with it and the ICs don't, by and large, get overcrowded (except where VT get greedy).

Paddington does not get manual barriers (or even have the space to do it with I suspect), the only effective method of enforcing a pick-up only restriction that I can see, and those trains in question do not fly past Reading non-stop. People have been doing it for years, and unlike ten years ago, train running information is easily accessible and commuters know what to look out for. Trying to change that is almost impossible without physically making it impossible for them to make the journey on said train.

 

[causton]

Paddington does not get manual barriers (or even have the space to do it with I suspect), the only effective method of enforcing a pick-up only restriction that I can see, and those trains in question do not fly past Reading non-stop. People have been doing it for years, and unlike ten years ago, train running information is easily accessible and commuters know what to look out for. Trying to change that is almost impossible without physically making it impossible for them to make the journey on said train.

Perhaps that is the answer - simply have a more varied stopping pattern that doesn't always include Reading! We have the same on the WCML, you don't get every train bar a couple stopping at Milton Keynes or Watford (the vague equivalents of Reading or Slough) and people moan, sure, "What do you mean I can't get a direct train from Watford to Blackpool North?", but they learn to live with it.

 

[yorkie]

But it's not just Reading passengers.

It's not just Peterborough passengers either!

We're talking a small number of trains needing to be genuinely Inter-City. I was on a crush-loaded 1915 Paddington-Swansea on a Friday. There was no room for anyone to board at Reading. We were well over an hour late into Llanshamlet as a result of losing our path, and thus the last connection from Swansea. The company were warned there'd be no room for anyone to board at Reading. But they made it stop there anyway.

 

[Nippy]

From May there is a new (FO) 19:12 Padd to Bristol train. Calling at Reading, Didcot, Swindon and Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[infobleep]

They can tweak maintenance cycles to gain an extra set on a Friday for a short period of a few months, perhaps by putting some maintenance off until Sundays (hypothetically). Doing the same thing 5 days a week wouldn't be possible.

If you happen to know where there's a spare HST coaching set knocking about perhaps someone might be interested - but not for one service per week...

Eventually there will be some from Scotland but guess by then they will have electrified the line and the problem will go away.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's not just Peterborough passengers either!

We're talking a small number of trains needing to be genuinely Inter-City. I was on a crush-loaded 1915 Paddington-Swansea on a Friday. There was no room for anyone to board at Reading. We were well over an hour late into Llanshamlet as a result of losing our path, and thus the last connection from Swansea. The company were warned there'd be no room for anyone to board at Reading. But they made it stop there anyway.

May be they felt it was better to stop the train, so they don't incur cancelled stop fees vers paying for your taxi to Swansea.

It would be interesting to know their reasoning on thus particular one.

I suspect with a short space of time they. Add a judgement call, which in hindsight may be wasn't the right one.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk