FGW/GWR Class 158s with three cabs!

[TransportHub]

I have been spotting near Portsmouth today and noticed that the class 158s have an extra cab in the centre. It looks like a two car unit with half of another unit stuck on the end, but the running numbers are the same at both ends (I could not read the number if the centre cab).

Does anyone know what's going on here?

 

[221129]

All of the GWR 3 car 158s (Except a couple) are formed of 1.5 2 car 158s. You can tell which ones these are as the begin with 1589XX

 

[jimm]

I have been spotting near Portsmouth today and noticed that the class 158s have an extra cab in the centre. It looks like a two car unit with half of another unit stuck on the end, but the running numbers are the same at both ends (I could not read the number if the centre cab).

Does anyone know what's going on here?

FGW has one 'proper' three=car 158 with a normal centre car. All the others were formed by splitting some two-car 158s and adding one coach to another two-car set to provide more three-car formations.

 

[PHILIPE]

I have been spotting near Portsmouth today and noticed that the class 158s have an extra cab in the centre. It looks like a two car unit with half of another unit stuck on the end, but the running numbers are the same at both ends (I could not read the number if the centre cab).

Does anyone know what's going on here?

They've been around, apart from a short break, for about 10 years now.

 

[Michael.Y]

There's a couple of 150s around in a similar situation too.

 

[jopsuk]

All the 15x units can do that. And can even form "hybrid" units

 

[TransportHub]

They've been around, apart from a short break, for about 10 years now.

I live in London so I haven't seen these trains before

p.s. thanks everyone for the info

 

[fgwrich]

All the 15x units can do that. And can even form "hybrid" units

As once done by BR and Central Trains with 153s & 156s coupled to 158s, and FGW with 153399 - Formed of 153369 & a 150/2 coach.

There's a couple of 150s around in a similar situation too.

BR started it off with the Midlands (Centro) and GMPTE 150s creating the hybrids (150/1 with a /2 sandwiched in the middle). The North West unit's weren't popular and were reduced back to two cars, while the Midlands ones remained the same until their disbandment and cascading to FGW & Northern back in 2010/2011. FGW has a 150/9 - This was formed of 150121 & 129 with the toiletless 57209 & 57212 - These two units lost their leading 52 cars in two separate accidents in their BR days - and are now formed into 150925 & 150926.

 

[Michael.Y]

The "genuine" 3-car 158 is easy to spot at the moment - it's the one with an all-over advertising livery.

 

[WillPS]

All the 15x units can do that. And can even form "hybrid" units

Although if a 158 is split and attached to another 15x an adapter plate has to be used as the interim gangway is wider than the standard Sprinter gangway.

These plates are or at least were at one point in short supply.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I rode on an odd combination out of Bristol the other day, a 150/2 with a single 150/1 car and a 153.

 

[455driver]

I rode on an odd combination out of Bristol the other day, a 150/2 with a single 150/1 car and a 153.

I wasn't aware of any misformed sets, must do some checking tomorrow.

 

[fairysdad]

I rode on an odd combination out of Bristol the other day, a 150/2 with a single 150/1 car and a 153.

Would that be the afore-mentioned 153399 set?

 

[455driver]

Would that be the afore-mentioned 153399 set?

That one (there have actually been 2) was (were) disbanded several years ago.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I rode on an odd combination out of Bristol the other day, a 150/2 with a single 150/1 car and a 153.

The 150/1 will have the 150/2 inserted inside as 150/1's dont have end corridors fitted so the 150/2 will act as the centre carriage utilising its carriage end gangway for the unit

Alternatively a complete 150/2 unit may have a DM from a 150/1 coupled on one end, but the teouble with this formation is there will be a corridor connection at one end of the unit only....

 

[455driver]

Doh, it would have been either 150925 or 926, these each have a 150/2 coach in the middle of a 150/1 making them 3 coach sets!

So it would have been a 150/1 with a single 150/2 coach (in the middle) and a 153.

He probably thought it was a 150/2 with a 150/1 attached to one end which would be wrong.

 

[al.currie93]

Doh, it would have been either 150925 or 926, these each have a 150/2 coach in the middle of a 150/1 making them 3 coach sets!

So it would have been a 150/1 with a single 150/2 coach (in the middle) and a 153.

He probably thought it was a 150/2 with a 150/1 attached to one end which would be wrong.

I travelled on one of the 150/2 sandwich formations from Southampton to Bath a few months ago, so yeah they are out and about

I think the best combination I saw was a 6 coach trains made up of a 3 coach 158, a 150/1 and a 153 which I saw a couple of years ago, heading towards Bath when walking along the old railway path running parallel to the GWML. Probably the most classes of unit I've ever seen in one train formation!

 

[fgwrich]

They've been around, apart from a short break, for about 10 years now.

Actually thinking about it for a moment, Wasn't it Transpennine Express that started the Hyrbid 158 formations off before Central Trains did it and then Wessex / FGW?

 

[PHILIPE]

Actually thinking about it for a moment, Wasn't it Transpennine Express that started the Hyrbid 158 formations off before Central Trains did it and then Wessex / FGW?

Not sure if TPE had genuine 3 Car Sets or not.

 

[sprinterguy]

Actually thinking about it for a moment, Wasn't it Transpennine Express that started the Hyrbid 158 formations off before Central Trains did it and then Wessex / FGW?

Central Trains were already operating hybrid 3-car sets from around the time of the millennium. TPE only formed up six 3-car hybrid sets for a fairly short period towards the end of their operation with the franchise, circa 2005.
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Not sure if TPE had genuine 3 Car Sets or not.

Transpennine Express operated all seventeen of the genuine 3-car sets: They were built specifically for the Newcastle to Liverpool service (though also worked other North Transpennine services).

 

[158747]

Not sure if TPE had genuine 3 Car Sets or not.

TPE had a mixture of genuine three car and hybrid 158s. I believe ex TPE 158798, now GWR's only genuine three car unit is the only one of these units now in it's original formation to carry it's original number. All the others have either been reduced to two car units with the centre car removed and placed in a different, original two car unit with Northern Rail or remaining as three car units and converted to SWT's 159/1 fleet.

 

[jamesontheroad]

TPE had a mixture of genuine three car and hybrid 158s. I believe ex TPE 158798, now GWR's only genuine three car unit is the only one of these units now in it's original formation to carry it's original number. All the others have either been reduced to two car units with the centre car removed and placed in a different, original two car unit with Northern Rail or remaining as three car units and converted to SWT's 159/1 fleet.

So in short, basically every 158 has, at one point or another, been split, joined or reconfigured

In all seriousness, I believe it was Central Trains who did this first to alleviate overcrowding on the Liverpool/Nottingham corridor. While EMT aren't perfect, they have made the Nottingham join/split on the Norwich/Liverpool quite reliable.

 

[PHILIPE]

So in short, basically every 158 has, at one point or another, been split, joined or reconfigured

In all seriousness, I believe it was Central Trains who did this first to alleviate overcrowding on the Liverpool/Nottingham corridor. While EMT aren't perfect, they have made the Nottingham join/split on the Norwich/Liverpool quite reliable.

No, not all 158s have been "tampered" with. The genuine 3 Car or the majority of 2 Car have not been either.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It's not a new concept, BR did it donkey's years ago and formed 4-CAP units, that was 2x2-HAP units with the controls in the middle cabs disabled.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

For a while TPE ran former central tains 158's which were christened "green goddesses" but they remained 2 car units. Quite why the 3 car sets were reduced to 2 cars only for the centre car to be incorporated into a 2 car unit to make it a 3 car i will never know! You can tell the difference with the cars by the orange door lights. On the 2 car units they are LED but the centre car retain the original bulb type and are a slightly different colour as a result

 

[cactustwirly]

Didn't LM 150/0s have 150/2 centre cars

 

[455driver]

Didn't LM 150/0s have 150/2 centre cars

Yes they did, 150202 and 216 were 2 of the units split up to provide the centre coaches.

 

[fgwrich]

Didn't LM 150/0s have 150/2 centre cars

The more faux 150/0s than original - you cant mess with the original 150/0s as both units are bar coupled between each coach, so you can take out but can't add in. This makes them I think closer to the 455s in that respect.

(BR RR / Central / LM 150003 + being the faux /0s made up of /2 coaches inserted)

 

[cactustwirly]

The more faux 150/0s than original - you cant mess with the original 150/0s as both units are bar coupled between each coach, so you can take out but can't add in. This makes them I think closer to the 455s in that respect.

(BR RR / Central / LM 150003 + being the faux /0s made up of /2 coaches inserted)

Oops! I forgot about 001/002, I live near Reading so I should have known.

 

[Parallel]

Alternatively a complete 150/2 unit may have a DM from a 150/1 coupled on one end, but the teouble with this formation is there will be a corridor connection at one end of the unit only....

150/1s working in multiples with 150/2s, 153s, 158s or other 150/1s are common around Bristol. Weekends sometimes throw up some interesting combinations, as do summer services to Weymouth. I have seen a 143/150 combination in Devon before too. Makes it all the more fun when local doors are used for short platforms!

I travelled on one of the 150/2 sandwich formations from Southampton to Bath a few months ago, so yeah they are out and about

I think the best combination I saw was a 6 coach trains made up of a 3 coach 158, a 150/1 and a 153 which I saw a couple of years ago, heading towards Bath when walking along the old railway path running parallel to the GWML. Probably the most classes of unit I've ever seen in one train formation!

You don't see many 6 carriage DMU services around Bath, as HSTs are used for to/from London, and 5 carriages tend to be the maximum for trains travelling in the Avon Valley. That said I have seen a 6 carriage (with every carriage carrying passengers) service before formed of 2 x 3-car 158s. Not sure what the door release arrangement for platforms were. Can unit deselect be used when passengers are in both units?