FGW HST Lengthening

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Captain Chaos

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Haven't seen anything on here so thought I would post it. It appears they have found some old buffet cars and are having them re-fitted into STD class coaches.

48 additional coaches in all apparently. Does this mean all HST's will be 2+8 from the some 2+7? Or will it mean mean 2+8's and 2+9's? Or even all 2+9's?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17310289
 
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Robbies

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Haven't seen anything on here so thought I would post it. It appears they have found some old buffet cars and are having them re-fitted into STD class coaches.

48 additional coaches in all apparently. Does this mean all HST's will be 2+8 from the some 2+7? Or will it mean mean 2+8's and 2+9's? Or even all 2+9's?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17310289

BBC London are quoting that they will be in servic by the Olympic Games, but given the detail from the link you have provided above they will probably be ready after the Olympic games......;)

Since FGW has about 58 sets of HST's I would say that some of those that are short formed would be extended. Existing 7/8 coach trains would remain the same as they are now.
 

LE Greys

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I imagine they've "found" the ones they removed from the sets in the first place. Not sure if there are any remaining MkIIIa's available for conversion, but I imagine not.
 

richw

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itv local westcountry news showed a decent bit of footage. not sure if that news is on iplayer. about 7mins into news.
 

starrymarkb

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Reading some of the comments I'm surprised Peter Skuce hasn't turned up to whinge about moquettes
 

mralexn

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I remember hearing that they said to one of the Managing Directors in charge of this project. The Question was as follows.

Will you be changing the windows on the ex buffet cars so they will be the same as the normal mk3 coaches?

"I can not comment as i do not know"

Would be nice to see the outcome of that! considering they also have to convert them back into buffet cars before the franchise ends..
 

swt_passenger

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Haven't seen anything on here so thought I would post it. It appears they have found some old buffet cars and are having them re-fitted into STD class coaches.

I think the reason you won't have found anything recently is because it was discussed when first announced by FGW, the tender for the work was issued sometime about spring last year (May perhaps?), and the project was confirmed last November by DfT, along with the additional few 150s and the 5 x 180s.

This is just routine press release stuff for the local papers benefit...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...considering they also have to convert them back into buffet cars before the franchise ends..

I reckon that's complete rubbish.

There's no way, having gone to the expense of rebuilding them, that will they ever be converted back. They are highly useful to the ROSCO as 84 seat trailers, but not at all as buffets.
 
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mralexn

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I think the reason you won't have found anything recently is because it was discussed when first announced by FGW, the tender for the work was issued sometime about spring last year (May perhaps?), and the project was confirmed last November by DfT, along with the additional few 150s and the 5 x 180s.

This is just routine press release stuff for the local papers benefit...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



I reckon that's complete rubbish.

There's no way, having gone to the expense of rebuilding them, that will they ever be converted back. They are highly useful to the ROSCO as 84 seat trailers, but not at all as buffets.

Why are buffets useless?
 

swt_passenger

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Why are buffets useless?

Because they haven't got 84 mostly airline seats for passengers. Isn't it obvious?

...and just to clarify, the BBC are wrong. The 48 vehicles was the total of HST, 180 and 150. There are only 15 HST vehicles being converted. As some may recall, most of them went up north as a single train from Eastleigh.

1.The extra carriages being provided thanks to Government support will see 15 Mark III buffet-car carriages converted to standard class to provide longer trains on services into Bristol, Reading and London Paddington.
2.25 Class 180 carriages will be leased and will then release suburban rolling stock to enable shorter distance commuter trains to be lengthened into Paddington.
3.Six Class 150 carriages will used on services running between Reading and Basingstoke and thereby allow the stock currently on that route to lengthen suburban trains on the Thames Valley into Paddington.
4.Two Class 150 carriages will be added to Bristol services allowing two Class 153s to be cascaded onto Truro to Falmouth and Exmouth to Torbay services.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releases/dft-press-20111122/
 

LE Greys

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Why are buffets useless?

Mainly because they have priced themselves out of the market and people are too lazy to walk to the buffet when there is a trolley coming through. Cut the price of tea and coffee to around £1 while halving the size of cups, and you would see a massive upsurge in buffet customers.

Besides, there is hardly the time to get there and back on a Bristol service.
 

richw

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The local news showed footage of them cutting out the metal to make standard windows

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
 

LE Greys

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The local news showed footage of them cutting out the metal to make standard windows

Makes me wonder why they couldn't do that to all the old sleeper stock we had lying around for years.
 

swt_passenger

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Makes me wonder why they couldn't do that to all the old sleeper stock we had lying around for years.

I understand it is because the sleeper stock was built differently to all other Mk3 stock. Because it was to have small windows all round, it could have completely different longitudinal and vertical framing to a normal coach.

Buffet cars were built with normal framing for large windows all round, but in one small section of the vehicle where the buffet was, the window apertures were not cut out fully.

The same applied to the Mk 3 based 442s which were basically framed for large windows throughout the motor coach, but had a few smaller ones for the buffet area, so they've been able to have large window openings retrospectivly cut out as well.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I understand it is because the sleeper stock was built differently to all other Mk3 stock. Because it was to have small windows all round, it could have completely different longitudinal and vertical framing to a normal coach.

That is correct; one Sleeper was in fact converted as a demonstration vehicle, and even exhibited at Railtex a few years ago, but it was so weak as a result of the conversion that it could not ever be moved by rail...:roll:
 

David

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Cut the price of tea and coffee to around £1 while halving the size of cups, and you would see a massive upsurge in buffet customers.

When I ask for a coffee on a train, I would like to recieve a half decent sized cup of coffee, not an expresso!

East Coast and TPE serve hot drinks in Maxpax sized cups. If you half the size of them, no wonder sales would soar, as you would need 2 cups (at least, depending on how well filled they are), to get what was previously offered ....
 

Nym

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It could but Mk3a coaches would also require fully re-wiring to be converted from running off 1000V DC ETH to 415V 3 Phase Power Supplies for the Mk3 (HST) Coaches.
 

electra27000

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It could but Mk3a coaches would also require fully re-wiring to be converted from running off 1000V DC ETH to 415V 3 Phase Power Supplies for the Mk3 (HST) Coaches.

I was thinking more of the Mk3a buffets being converted as LHCS, as I believe there were concerns a while ago about there being a shortage of Mk3a coaching stock.
 

Turbostar

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Actually the cars are the redundant buffet cars that were taken up north at various times last year from Laira for storage, now they're being converted into the standard cars. Saw the report on Spotlight last week & basically thought what a joke, 1 extra car per whatever train! Well, that just about sums FGW up to a 'T'. God help us if they win the next franchise. :-/
 

starrymarkb

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Actually the cars are the redundant buffet cars that were taken up north at various times last year from Laira for storage, now they're being converted into the standard cars. Saw the report on Spotlight last week & basically thought what a joke, 1 extra car per whatever train! Well, that just about sums FGW up to a 'T'. God help us if they win the next franchise. :-/

Actually I can't see them wanting to spend too much on the HST fleet anyway. IEP was supposed to be in service either this year or next when they last refurbished. Isn't it now due in 2015 (Though given that DafT has yet to authorise the ****ing order that may be optimistic)
 

devon_metro

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Actually the cars are the redundant buffet cars that were taken up north at various times last year from Laira for storage, now they're being converted into the standard cars. Saw the report on Spotlight last week & basically thought what a joke, 1 extra car per whatever train! Well, that just about sums FGW up to a 'T'. God help us if they win the next franchise. :-/

Yes, a near 20% increase in standard class seating capacity on some of the most popular trains is such a joke! :roll:
 

jon0844

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If, and I'm making assumptions here, FGW was told that it would have to restore the converted buffet cars back as buffet cars at the end of the franchise, I can see why they didn't do it!

I presume somewhere along the line (sic) common sense has prevailed and they've been told that they can keep them as standard class coaches - and so it became commercially viable.
 
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Because they haven't got 84 mostly airline seats for passengers. Isn't it obvious?

...and just to clarify, the BBC are wrong. The 48 vehicles was the total of HST, 180 and 150. There are only 15 HST vehicles being converted. As some may recall, most of them went up north as a single train from Eastleigh.

Unless I've been misinformed, the fifteen buffet cars that are being converted to Mk III HST trailer standards are ex loco hauled vehicles. As such, they will need to be converted to HST trailers in the same way that the Grand Central and Arriva Cross Country vehicles were.

Does anyone know the painted numbers of the donor vehicles, to either confirm this or otherwise?
 

LE Greys

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When I ask for a coffee on a train, I would like to recieve a half decent sized cup of coffee, not an expresso!

East Coast and TPE serve hot drinks in Maxpax sized cups. If you half the size of them, no wonder sales would soar, as you would need 2 cups (at least, depending on how well filled they are), to get what was previously offered ....

I was thinking of something the equivalent size of a household mug, not a pint of bitter. OK, maybe they're not that big, but they are still considerably larger than the average mug. You must have a very resiliant bladder.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, a near 20% increase in standard class seating capacity on some of the most popular trains is such a joke! :roll:

Still seems like a considerable backward step. You could add another 25% by removing gangway connections and toilets, with full width benches creating six-a-side compartments. Then we would really be back to Victorian-era travel. Essentially, FGW are reversing some of the progress made by Dean and Churchward in adding amenities to trains to make travel more comfortable.
 

ainsworth74

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Unless I've been misinformed, the fifteen buffet cars that are being converted to Mk III HST trailer standards are ex loco hauled vehicles. As such, they will need to be converted to HST trailers in the same way that the Grand Central and Arriva Cross Country vehicles were.

Pretty sure that they're ex-FGW HST buffets that were removed from HST formations when the micro buffets were fitted instead.
 

David

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I was thinking of something the equivalent size of a household mug, not a pint of bitter. OK, maybe they're not that big, but they are still considerably larger than the average mug. You must have a very resiliant bladder.

I think you misread my post slightly. I refer you to my comments about the size of cups used by East Coast and TPE. That's what I mean about wanting a coffee and not an expresso ....
 

starrymarkb

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I was thinking of something the equivalent size of a household mug, not a pint of bitter. OK, maybe they're not that big, but they are still considerably larger than the average mug. You must have a very resiliant bladder.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Still seems like a considerable backward step. You could add another 25% by removing gangway connections and toilets, with full width benches creating six-a-side compartments. Then we would really be back to Victorian-era travel. Essentially, FGW are reversing some of the progress made by Dean and Churchward in adding amenities to trains to make travel more comfortable.

Alternatively they could stop the Reading pick up. Expect the same ones who complain that they can't get a seat on the HSTs to be complaining about the journey time on a Turbo/Crossrail EMU
 
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