FGW HST to East Coast (short term)

[swt_passenger]

Frankly, I can't believe that someone is actually criticising First Great Western for doing this; I'd be asking why other TOCs don't do the same thing. Accidents are extremely rare on trains, as they are in the air, but we don't slate airlines for giving the safety demonstration and guiding everyone towards the cards in the seat pocket!

I was explaining that it isn't a legal requirement to have cards, not that it isn't useful.

 

[mallard]

I think there's a real benefit to having the safety information placed where people can see it, as against somewhere where they probably won't see it - but the company can say 'hah, who cares if they didn't read it - at least we've ticked the appropriate box!'.

Frankly, I can't believe that someone is actually criticising First Great Western for doing this; I'd be asking why other TOCs don't do the same thing. Accidents are extremely rare on trains, as they are in the air, but we don't slate airlines for giving the safety demonstration and guiding everyone towards the cards in the seat pocket!

HEX also has the safety information placed on cards around the train, and I am sure there will be others. Let's congratulate them and cut the cynicism!

Shall we just plaster every available surface with safety information and play it over the PA every 15 seconds in 12 different languages then? That'll make sure that everybody gets it? Make sure everybody knows what to do in the extremely unlikely event of a "disaster" level accident? (In any other accident there will be staff on hand to assist.)

You think that's overkill? So there is a limit to what should be done to inform people then? So we shouldn't just blindly praise any company that does something in the name of "safety"?

Putting a booklet of information that is basic common-sense and obvious to anyone who's travelled on a train, bus, plane or ferry before at every seat is just a PR gimmick, it doesn't actually help anyone.

Maybe there's a place for it on HEX where a significant number of passengers will have never travelled on a UK train before and some may come form countries with very different safety cultures, but not on "normal" trains.

Aircraft are a little more different, with their far more limited escape routes, etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

Putting a booklet of information that is basic common-sense and obvious to anyone who's travelled on a train, bus, plane or ferry before at every seat is just a PR gimmick, it doesn't actually help anyone.

And for those that haven't travelled by train before?

 

[Aictos]

And for those that haven't travelled by train before?

Exactly, good point there.

 

[WestCoast]

The problem is, what about the rest of the train fleet? It's not just HSTs that have safety information. To me it does seem a little gimmicky because of that reason. Why do HST passengers have to be informed in this way, but not those travelling on a Pacer? :?

Virgin used to put the info in a magazine.

Many TOCs have announcements advising passengers to read the 'safety posters' which hardly anyone does and I couldn't tell you where most posters are (vestibules I presume).

Aircraft are very different; variable emergency exit locations and numbers, special procedures for electronics and baggage, oxygen masks, life jackets, evacuation slides. It's much more complicated for the irregular passenger.

 

[jon0844]

Shall we just plaster every available surface with safety information and play it over the PA every 15 seconds in 12 different languages then?

No, you simply put it on a card (possibly in more than one language) for people to read if they want, or ignore if they don't.

Why would you want to go to such extremes as your suggestion? (And, yes, I know you were being sarcastic - but it's actually just childish).

Maybe there's a place for it on HEX where a significant number of passengers will have never travelled on a UK train before and some may come form countries with very different safety cultures, but not on "normal" trains. Aircraft are a little more different, with their far more limited escape routes, etc.

So people on FGW are all locals and used to our trains? What an odd thing to say!

I think of an aircraft cabin as being rather similar to a train carriage actually. Long, seats on each side of an aisle.. exits at front, rear and middle (window exits on a train). Erm, besides one not taking off from the ground, can you explain why they're so different again? Okay, no oxygen masks or life jackets to worry about, but there's nothing about this in the safety card on a train is there?

Trains don't have the demonstration from train crew, and the driver/TM doesn't read out the safety instructions

I say it's a good thing to make something available, which you can happily ignore if you want (why exactly are you so angry and offended about a card in the seat pocket?) when everyone knows few people read the safety posters on the wall of a train. So, while there's a legal requirement to publish this information, most TOCs are happy to just do the bare minimum which helps no one. Rather that slag off FGW for doing it on the HSTs, why aren't we asking why other operators don't do the same?

 

[WestCoast]

I think of an aircraft cabin as being rather similar to a train carriage actually. Long, seats on each side of an aisle.. exits at front, rear and middle (window exits on a train). Erm, besides one not taking off from the ground, can you explain why they're so different again? Okay, no oxygen masks or life jackets to worry about, but there's nothing about this in the safety card on a train is there?

I have nothing against FGW putting these cards on but an aircraft isn't really comparable. What about seatbelts, luggage stowage (I've seen suitcases in the aisles on trains, wouldn't happen on an aircraft!), electronic devices, flotation equipment, evacuation slides. Some smaller aircraft don't have exits at the rear either.

I don't mind FGW's refurb, but I don't think it's quite as pleasant and 'cozy' as East Coast. The warmer colours just seem more relaxing on the East Coast example, I don't think purple, pink and light blue are great colours, although they reflect First's corporate image. Highly subjective of course.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Indeed, I like the way that East Midlands Trains has kept the old interior but has given it a new lease of life but as to the refurbished HSTs, the Great Western HSTs win every time.

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with this as well; I much prefer the EMT interiors. By far the neatest and most comfortable.

The legroom in the FGW ones isn't a problem; it's the intimidatingly high seat backs that makes them look cramped.

 

[mallard]

And for those that haven't travelled by train before?

I think the number of people on a train who've never travelled on any form of public transport before would be statistically insignificant. Apart from maybe on Heathrow/Gatwick/Stansted services.

Those who really have no experience of public transport can easily read a poster at the end of a carriage if they feel the need to.

The point I was trying to make (using the rhetorical device of hyperbole) was that just adding more information doesn't really improve safety very much, but putting a booklet (quite literally) in every passenger's face certainly works for PR. The fact that First don't do it on anything other than the FGW HSTs (surely at least the 158s could do with it, or TPE's 185s) further underlines that it's more a PR stunt than a serious attempt to improve safety.

Aircraft are very different, with much more complex emergency/evacuation procedures (masks, seatbelts, slides, etc.) many more passengers to use fewer, smaller exits and are used much more infrequently by most passengers.

The fact that so many people are quick to praise FGW for this shows how well the stunt has worked! It's not a "bad" thing as such, more a "pointless" thing that has the effect of, by implication, making other TOCs look bad for no real reason.

 

[Aictos]

I'm afraid I'm going to disagree with this as well; I much prefer the EMT interiors. By far the neatest and most comfortable.

The legroom in the FGW ones isn't a problem; it's the intimidatingly high seat backs that makes them look cramped.

Yes you are right but the refurbishment done by East Midlands Trains and GNER/First Great Western were of differing standards.

Yes a lick of paint and new seat covers has done wonders to renew a ageing fleet as used by EMT but a lot more was done to the fleets used by GNER/First Great Western which is where I was referring to.

That said, the Grand Central refurbishment is equally as pleasant as the East Midlands Trains one.

 

[TEW]

I think the number of people on a train who've never travelled on any form of public transport before would be statistically insignificant. Apart from maybe on Heathrow/Gatwick/Stansted services.

Those who really have no experience of public transport can easily read a poster at the end of a carriage if they feel the need to.

The point I was trying to make (using the rhetorical device of hyperbole) was that just adding more information doesn't really improve safety very much, but putting a booklet (quite literally) in every passenger's face certainly works for PR. The fact that First don't do it on anything other than the FGW HSTs (surely at least the 158s could do with it, or TPE's 185s) further underlines that it's more a PR stunt than a serious attempt to improve safety.

Aircraft are very different, with much more complex emergency/evacuation procedures (masks, seatbelts, slides, etc.) many more passengers to use fewer, smaller exits and are used much more infrequently by most passengers.

The fact that so many people are quick to praise FGW for this shows how well the stunt has worked! It's not a "bad" thing as such, more a "pointless" thing that has the effect of, by implication, making other TOCs look bad for no real reason.

If you read the Ufton Nervet accident report I believe the presence of the safety cards is actually complimented, you see far more people reading them than you do reading safety posters.

 

[Bridge189]

Yes you are right but the refurbishment done by East Midlands Trains and GNER/First Great Western were of differing standards.

Yes a lick of paint and new seat covers has done wonders to renew a ageing fleet as used by EMT but a lot more was done to the fleets used by GNER/First Great Western which is where I was referring to.

That said, the Grand Central refurbishment is equally as pleasant as the East Midlands Trains one.

I think the GC refurb looks drab all they really did was change the seat covers from the VWC days. The lights are dull and the buffet is the old fashioned BR style which is very dated when compared to the EC/FGW job.

 

[scotsman]

Not everyone knows the safety procedures - it may be obvious to some of us, but not to a lot of the travelling public.

As for safety cards being a gimmick on ferries - what planet are you on?!

 

[Aictos]

I think the GC refurb looks drab all they really did was change the seat covers from the VWC days. The lights are dull and the buffet is the old fashioned BR style which is very dated when compared to the EC/FGW job.

There is one big difference though - all the seats lie up with the windows which makes them comfortable,

 

[mallard]

Not everyone knows the safety procedures - it may be obvious to some of us, but not to a lot of the travelling public.

As for safety cards being a gimmick on ferries - what planet are you on?!

The safety procedures are "stay where you are and wait to be directed by staff, except in the extremely unlikely situation where you absolutely have to evacuate without help (such as the carriage being on fire) then you find the nearest (well marked and in obvious places) emergency exit and leave in an orderly manner". Pretty much the same as on any form of public transport. You only really have to read one poster/leaflet on one train/bus/plane/ferry/whatever to understand it.

Oh and I never said they were a gimmick on ferries. If you disagree with what I actually said, fine, but there's no need to resort to lies. Ferries have some extra need for information, due to the complications with lifeboats, lifevests, etc, but on them it's even less likely that passengers would need to evacuate on their own.

 

[jon0844]

Where are the ladders, fire extinguishers or first aid kit? Does everyone know this too, or is it obvious?

 

[mallard]

Where are the ladders, fire extinguishers or first aid kit? Does everyone know this too, or is it obvious?

Locked away in cabinets that passengers can't access, even in an emergency. In 99.99% of incidents, staff will be "running the show" anyway, so there's no need for passengers to have encyclopaedic knowledge of emergency procedures.

 

[jon0844]

Really? Perhaps not on an HST, but I can get to these things by breaking a perspex panel on other rolling stock.

If it varies by stock, all the more reason to tell passengers the specific emergency procedures on all trains - and easy to access.

 

[jopsuk]

I'd hope that the ladder, rope crowbar and saw(!) on a 365 are publicly accessible in an emergency, otherwise the stickers pointing to where they're located are frankly mocking. I mean, dammit, when the zombie apocalypse happens, if I'm on a 365 I'm getting one of those crowbars. Before any of the rest of you...

 

[TheBoyFromTheN]

43238 hauled from EDI to KGX 6/11/11 - Coach B is half FGW and half EMT seats - most bizarre!!!!+-
coach F had no lights upon arrrival at KGX!

 

[fgwrich]

43238 hauled from EDI to KGX 6/11/11 - Coach B is half FGW and half EMT seats - most bizarre!!!!+-
coach F had no lights upon arrrival at KGX!

Ah yes, the infamous East Midlands FGW East Coast hyrbid Mk3 There is a thread somewhere on here from a few months ago about it, with the closest / best result of an answer was that as East Coast has removed the ex MML Lugguage rack in the middle of the coach, they have removed and reseated some of the coaches with the seats from coach a or b and in their place, used/borrowed several FGW HST seats to fill the space...

Which gives you one of the most bizzare HST Hybrids you'll ever find, FGW/EMT interior with EC Branding and posters!

As for the lights not working, Yep, sounds like East Coast - The timetable that pushes a little too far...try travelling on one of the Mk3s in August...with a missing Air Con module!

 

[Temple Meads]

Just out of interest what do you actually pay for and what do you get on this VOLO TV system? Is live streaming tv.

There's a choice of various programmes, it's not channel's, but various documentaries, drama's sport etc, you choose from a list, to watch TV or films you have to pay £1.75 for 1 viewing session, you can also buy subscriptions if you regularly travel.
There's also various maps (including a great moving one), safety information and news headlines available to anyone for free.

In regards to the leather seats I think the reason for having them is down to leather being perceived as higher quality than fabric, for comfort, I like them, lots of space, nice smell, and it does feel very, well, classy.

 

[jon0844]

Leather is also quicker to clean, which is why Ryanair favoured it over fabric.