FGW September Fares Increases

[glynn80]

Following a tip-off from "father_jack" on WNXX, there is apparently going to be a fares shake up from First Great Western occurring in the September Fares Round. Through my own research, I can confirm father_jack's information is very credible.

A summary of the changes, using the BRI to PAD flow as a standard example, are as follows:

• New SSR fares introduced. Using the BRI to PAD flow, the SSR fare will be introduced at the current SVR price of £49.00, restricted to arrivals into PAD after 1200 and not valid for return out of PAD between 1501 and 1901. No SSS will be introduced.

• Current SVR fares will increase. On the BRI to PAD flow, the SVR fare rises by 32.7% from £49.00 to £65.00. The flow keeps same restrictions, not valid for departures from BRI before 0845 (earliest arrival into PAD at 1039) and for departures returning from PAD between 0840 and 1640, or after 1831.

• Current SVS fares will decrease. The BRI to PAD flow SVS goes down 33.3% from £48.00 to £32.50.

• Most AP fares will receive a small % fares increase.

For those of you, who are wondering the current fares regulation FGW are binded by with regard to the SVR fare, the Franchise Agreement states the following:

Protected Return Fare means in respect of a Fare for a Flow:

a) for which there was a Saver Return fare in February 2003, a Return Fare for each such Flow in respect of which the Franchisee is entitled from time to time to set the Price or Child Price under the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement, subject to the following addition rights and restrictions:

(i) it shall be valid for no less than one month;

(ii) it shall be valid all day on a Saturday or Sunday and from no later than 1030 on any other day;

(iii) it need not be valid for any journey:

(A) beginning between 1500 and 1900 on any day other than a Saturday or Sunday;

(B) where such a journey begins from a London station or any station between London and Reading station, Watford station, Luton station or Stevenage station (inclusively); and

(C) which is in a direction away from London; or
​

b) for which there was no Saver Return Fare in February 2003, a Return Fare for each such Flow in respect of which the Franchisee is entitled from time to time to set the price or Child Price under the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement,

except in each case to the extent that a return fare for any such Flow is a Commuter Fare;

What the above basically states is that FGW is free to alter the timing restrictions within the Protected Return Fare (in this case the SVR) validity code, so long as the restrictions allow the passenger to depart their destination after 1030 Monday to Fridays. For the BRI flow, this means arrival into PAD at 1211, tallying in with the 1200 restriction as stated above.

FGW are also permitted to restrict Monday to Friday travel out of various London area stations between the hours of 1500 and 1900, again tallying in with the 1501 to 1901 restrictions stated above.

What this basically amounts to is FGW imposing the most restrictive time restrictions on the Protected Return Fare, that the DfT will physically permit.

What does puzzle me though is the 32% increase in the SVR price to £65.00 and a new SSR fare being introduced. I am unsure how this increase will tally in with the price increase capping of RPI+1%. What I believe is that feasibly FGW could transfer the protected status to the new SSR fare (which keeps within the Protected Return Fare regulations in the Franchise Agreement) and then they are free to increase the SVR to any amount they feel the market can bear.

Confirmation of the above will be made on August 10, when the fares are released into the FRPP prior to the "effective date" of September 6. What I can say though, is that if this is a sign of things to come with the TOCs struggling as they are, there could be some serious fares restrictions and increases come January...

 

[devon_metro]

Your research is correct: some in depth discussion here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5123.0

However these SSRs will only be introduced on tickets towards Reading and London Paddington.

 

[yorkie]

so you split at Swindon, as a SSR from there will be valid from 1030 getting you to PAD earlier!

Splitting will become the norm on this route.

 

[John @ home]

What does puzzle me though is the 32% increase in the SVR price to £65.00 and a new SSR fare being introduced. I am unsure how this increase will tally in with the price increase capping of RPI+1%. What I believe is that feasibly FGW could transfer the protected status to the new SSR fare (which keeps within the Protected Return Fare regulations in the Franchise Agreement) and then they are free to increase the SVR to any amount they feel the market can bear.

Yes, that is what has happened when GNER/NXEC and MML/EMT did this. One of the fares which is regulated is the fare which used to be called the Saver return, irrespective of what it is called since Fares Complification. So the following are all currently regulated fares:

Anytime Return (SOR) Leeds - Carlisle route Appleby £37.90
Sep 2005: SVR Leeds - Carlisle route Direct £31.50 Change +20.3%

Off Peak Return (SVR) Leeds - Bangor (Gwynedd) £60.60
Sep 2005: SVR Leeds - Bangor (Gwynedd) £50.90 Change +19.1%

Super Off Peak Return (SSR) Leeds - Stevenage route Not London £71.30
Sep 2005: SVR Leeds - Stevenage route Not London £58.10 Change +22.7%

John

 

[ian13]

so you split at Swindon, as a SSR from there will be valid from 1030 getting you to PAD earlier!

Splitting will become the norm on this route.

I assume they'll impose more restrictions on this fare too.

It's a sad situation, especially as the fares were so expensive before. Ultimately, it's pricing people out.

 

[glynn80]

Yes, that is what has happened when GNER/NXEC and MML/EMT did this. One of the fares which is regulated is the fare which used to be called the Saver return, irrespective of what it is called since Fares Complification. So the following are all currently regulated fares:

Anytime Return (SOR) Leeds - Carlisle route Appleby £37.90
Sep 2005: SVR Leeds - Carlisle route Direct £31.50 Change +20.3%

Off Peak Return (SVR) Leeds - Bangor (Gwynedd) £60.60
Sep 2005: SVR Leeds - Bangor (Gwynedd) £50.90 Change +19.1%

Super Off Peak Return (SSR) Leeds - Stevenage route Not London £71.30
Sep 2005: SVR Leeds - Stevenage route Not London £58.10 Change +22.7%

John

Two of the examples above, I can see have caused confusion because the old SVR fare was not transferred to the new Off Peak ticket type (as nearly all were) for various reasons.

The first example, Leeds to Carlisle, was caused due to Northern renaming their old "Saver" Returns, "Anytime" Returns. Their reasoning was that the old Northern Savers had an 8A restriction code that had allowed travel via any train, so those fares slotted into the Anytime definition after Simplification.

The third example, Leeds to Stevenage, was caused due to GNER's previous walk-on fares policy. Prior to Simplification there were three main fares types, Saver, Business Saver and Standard Open. After Simplification the most restrictive ticket type (the Saver) was renamed Super Off Peak, the least restrictive ticket type (the Standard Open) was renamed Anytime and the one in the middle (the Business Saver) was renamed Off Peak.

But crucially the two examples above only had their "names" changed, the fare and time restrictions were not changed.

In the current situation, FGW is changing both the named regulated ticket type and the time restrictions that go with it. If I am correct, this has never been done simultaneously before...

P.S. Those fares increases just seem to be the normal RPI+1 compounded over four years?

 

[ian13]

Lets not forget that an anytime return on the Bristol to London route is a whopping £153.00. I guess next time I'll take a coach to London...

 

[philjo]

Presumably they are increasing the fares now as the (presumably negative) July inflation rate when it is announced will probably require some reductions of regulated fares in January....

 

[glynn80]

Presumably they are increasing the fares now as the (presumably negative) July inflation rate when it is announced will probably require some reductions of regulated fares in January....

Correct, if the July inflation rate is announced in September as being <1%, then there will be reductions across the board of regulated fares.

What FGW seem to have done in stealth is move the goalposts. They now have an Off Peak Return product identical to the previous product, that is unregulated; that allows them to increase pricewise, as high as they see fit.

What they also have is a regulated product (the Super Off Peak Return) that is as restrictive as their franchise agreement allows. It is this product that will now see the reductions come January.

I have to say, the Pricing Manager at FGW is very shrewd indeed.

 

[yorkie]

let's hope it backfires on him/her. has anyone informed coach companies yet?

I am pro-rail but there is no excusing this increase and people need to 'vote with their wallets'

I think there will now be a market for a shoulder-peak express coach.

 

[ian13]

let's hope it backfires on him/her. has anyone informed coach companies yet?

I am pro-rail but there is no excusing this increase and people need to 'vote with their wallets'

I think there will now be a market for a shoulder-peak express coach.

I have to visit London occasionally, and whilst I am flexible enough to be able to use the present 'off peak' and also have a railcard, this super business is sadly going to force me to use the coach. Bristol to London is £19.20 on National Express, and takes a rather painful 2 hours 30+.

 

[glynn80]

OK, so on Monday NFM 04 was published. Again I will be using the Bristol to London flow as an example when analysing.

Here is the Bristol to London flow as of September 6th:
FOS 127.00
FOR 254.00
ETR 270.00
FSR 154.00- LC Validity Code
SOS 76.50
SOR 153.00
SVS 29.50- LC Validity Code
SVR 59.00- LC Validity Code
SSS 24.50- XC Validity Code
SSR 49.00- XC Validity Code

Compare that with the Bristol to London flow in NFM 03:
FOS- 127.00
FOR 254.00
ETR 270.00
FSR 154.00- LC Validity Code
SOS 76.50
SOR 153.00
SVS 48.00- LC Validity Code
SVR 49.00- LC Validity Code

So to confirm the changes:

• A new SSR fare has been introduced at the previous SVR fare.

• A new SSS fare has been introduced at half the SSR fare.

• The SVR fare has risen by 20.4% (£10.00)

• The SVS fare has reduced by 38.5% (£18.50)

• The LC validity code has been altered. For the Bristol flow, the first available train to London the SVR is valid on is the 0815 from BRI or the 0845 from BPW. This is as opposed to the previous validity of the SVR which listed the first available train to London as the 0845 from BPI and the 0915 from BPW.

• Return travel using the LC validity allows the SVR on services departing London Paddington or London Waterloo between 0810 and 1640, or after 1825. This is as opposed to the previous vailidity of the SVR which permitted the SVR on services departing London Paddington or London Waterloo between 0840 and 1640, or after 1831.

• The XC validity code has been introduced for the SSR flows. For the Bristol flow, the first available train to London the SSR is valid on is the 0945 from BRI or the 1015 from BPW.

• Return travel using the XC validity code allows the SSR on services departing London Paddington or London Waterloo between 1010 and 1459, or after 1859.

So are we better or worse off because of the changes?

For £10 extra SVR customers will be able to board London bound trains on the outward portion 30 minutes earlier. On the return leg, the daytime validity period has been extended, again by half an hour in the morning. In the evening there has been practically no change on the return leg except to permit travel on the 1830 ex London. There is no clear cut answer as to whether passengers are better or worse off, it really depends on how much they value the extra validity they are paying £10.00 for.

For the old SVR price customers are definitely worse off. On the outward portion customers are now restricted to trains 1 hour later out of either Bristol station. On the return portion it gets worse, the daytime validity period has been reduced by 1 hour 30 minutes in the morning and 1 hour forty minutes in the afternoon, a total of 3 hours 10 minutes of potential departures gone. Finally the first evening departure time has also been put back 28 minutes to 1859.

The biggest improvement however is in single fares. No longer are passenger penalised for purchasing a single ticket by being charged nearly the full return price for half the validity. The single fares are now fairly priced at half the return equivalent. What I am curious about is why this decision has been taken. Is it to take the sting out of the SVR fares increases or is it to encourage travellers only wishing to travel in one direction?

 

[mathmo]

The biggest improvement however is in single fares. No longer are passenger penalised for purchasing a single ticket by being charged nearly the full return price for half the validity. The single fares are now fairly priced at half the return equivalent. What I am curious about is why this decision has been taken. Is it to take the sting out of the SVR fares increases or is it to encourage travellers only wishing to travel in one direction?

I'm equally curious: with single fares at precisely 50% of the return, it's now advantageous to buy a single for each direction unless you know exactly when you're planning to travel. If you might want to return at times when the SVR is valid but not the SSR, then just buy the appropriate single when you get to the station on your return! I'm surprised the single fares haven't been priced at (say) 55% of return fares, which would seem reasonable!

 

[glynn80]

Appendix

For those who want to check see how the fares changes apply to them here are the LC (for use with SVR/SVS) and XC (for use with SSR/SSS) validity codes in full.

I am also more than happy to post fares from specific stations to London, if there are any requests.

Validity Code LC

JOURNEYS TO/FROM/VIA LONDON/READING
Available as listed below MONDAYS-FRIDAYS (By any train on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays)


Towards London

From: Swansea
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0715 (also valid between 0200 and 0430)

From: Neath
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0725 (also valid between 0200 and 0430)

From: Port Talbot Parkway
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0735 (also valid between 0200 and 0445)

From: Bridgend
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0745 (also valid between 0200 and 0500)

From: Cardiff Central
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0810 (also valid between 0200 and 0530)

From: Newport
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0830 (also valid between 0200 and 0545)

From: Bristol Parkway
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0845 (also valid between 0200 and 0530)

From: Avoncliff
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0820

From: Bradford on Avon
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0755

From: Freshford
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0800

From: Trowbridge
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0750

From: Nailsea & Backwell
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0800

From: Yatton
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0755

From: Weston-Super-Mare
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0735

From: Bristol Temple Meads
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0815 (also valid between 0200 and 0510)

From: Bath Spa
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0830

From: Chippenham
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0840

From: Swindon
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0905 (also valid between 0200 and 0545)

From: Cheltenham Spa
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0745*

From: Gloucester
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0740*

From: Stonehouse
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0845

From: Stroud
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0850

From: Kemble
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0905


*When travelling via Bristol Parkway on tickets routed ‘Any Permitted’, the restriction time shown above for Bristol Parkway also applies.


From London

Valid on services departing London Paddington or London Waterloo between 0810 and 1640, or after 1825 (departing Reading, heading west (i.e. services passing through Didcot Parkway, Oxford or Newbury ONLY) between 0835 and 1710, or after 1855).


Off-Peak tickets from stations not listed are valid for connections into the above trains


In addition to the specific restrictions shown above, the following restrictions also apply:

· Validity Code 9A (restrictions listed as From/via Euston) applies from Swindon, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary for travel via London Euston to destinations beyond Milton Keynes.

· Validity Code Q8 applies to all journeys via Fareham/Southampton/Salisbury.

· Validity Code WO applies to journeys via Didcot Parkway/Newbury, not passing through Reading.

Restrictions are lifted on Christmas Eve (p.m. restrictions only) and between Christmas and New Year (a.m. and p.m.)

Validity Code XC

JOURNEYS TO/FROM/VIA LONDON/READING
Available as listed below MONDAYS-FRIDAYS (By any train on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holiday Mondays)


Towards London

From: Swansea
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0845 (also valid between 0200 and 0430)

From: Neath
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0855 (also valid between 0200 and 0430)

From: Port Talbot Parkway
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0905 (also valid between 0200 and 0445)

From: Bridgend
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0915 (also valid between 0200 and 0500)

From: Cardiff Central
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0940 (also valid between 0200 and 0530)

From: Newport
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1000 (also valid between 0200 and 0545)

From: Bristol Parkway
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1015 (also valid between 0200 and 0530)

From: Avoncliff
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0940

From: Bradford on Avon
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0935

From: Freshford
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0940

From: Trowbridge
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0930

From: Nailsea & Backwell
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0930

From: Yatton
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0925

From: Weston-Super-Mare
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0920

From: Bristol Temple Meads
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0945 (also valid between 0200 and 0510)

From: Bath Spa
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1000

From: Chippenham
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1010

From: Swindon
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1030 (also valid between 0200 and 0545)

From: Cheltenham Spa
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0930*

From: Gloucester
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0930*

From: Stonehouse
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 0955

From: Stroud
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1000

From: Kemble
Available on all trains departing at or later than: 1015


*When travelling via Bristol Parkway on tickets routed ‘Any Permitted’, the restriction time shown above for Bristol Parkway also applies.


From London

Valid on services departing London Paddington or London Waterloo between 1010 and 1459, or after 1859 (departing Reading, heading west (i.e. services passing through Didcot Parkway, Oxford or Newbury ONLY) between 1030 and 1525, or after 1859).


Super Off-Peak tickets from stations not listed are valid for connections into the above trains


In addition to the specific restrictions shown above, the following restrictions also apply:

· Validity Code 9A (restrictions listed as From/via Euston) applies from Swindon, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary for travel via London Euston to destinations beyond Milton Keynes.

· Validity Code Q8 applies to all journeys via Fareham/Southampton/Salisbury.

· Validity Code 2W applies to journeys via Didcot Parkway/Newbury, not passing through Reading.

Restrictions are lifted on Christmas Eve (p.m. restrictions only) and between Christmas and New Year (a.m. and p.m.)

 

[PhilipW]

I take it that fares to places beyond London are also affected by the new restrictions. For example a Bath-Norwich or Swindon-Newcastle. Even though the majority of the journey may be outside FGW territory, the FGW restrictions and price increases apply.

Is this true ?

 

[mathmo]

I take it that fares to places beyond London are also affected by the new restrictions. For example a Bath-Norwich or Swindon-Newcastle. Even though the majority of the journey may be outside FGW territory, the FGW restrictions and price increases apply.

Is this true ?

Unless I'm very much mistaken, FGW can only increase prices on routes for which they set the fare. They are at the mercy of other rail operators on other routes (e.g. Cambridge-Reading is set by FCC and has no evening peak restrictions out of Paddington despite having them out of King's Cross). For the examples you quote, Bath-Norwich is priced by NXEA and Swindon-Newcastle by NXEC so they shouldn't be affected by these changes - but I'm sure glynn80 will confirm. (I don't have the new fares data.)

 

[PhilipW]

The problem then exists that the general public has no idea as to which company sets the fares. Even I, as a railway enthusiast, do not either. Frankly I have no particular interest in delving into the subject that deeply. I just wish to understand the general principles and know that I am not being taken advantage of.

In the example quoted of Bath-Norwich, it is said that is under NXEA control. Would the same apply for Bristol-Norwich, Cardiff-Norwich or Swansea-Norwich. At some point the FGW portion must become the majority of the journey and FGW take control. What about a Penzance-Norwich ticket; I presume that must be under NXEA control ?

If the portion of the journey is reduced on NXEA to Chelmsford say, I would presume that Bath-Chelmsford and from Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea are more likely to be under FGW control.

I don't understand all the rules and restrictions. How on earth can the general public be expected to either.

I find it all rather embarrassing. It's my country and we have such a complicated rail system.

 

[philjo]

Now on BBC News:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8201019.stm

Many passengers using First Great Western (FGW) will see their fares rise by up to 20%.

From 6 September FGW will introduce new restrictions on its cheapest off-peak return tickets for people travelling between the west of England and London.

This means some customers will either have to travel later in the day or pay more for their journey. Off-peak single ticket prices will be reduced.

The price rises have been criticised by groups representing passengers.

Under the changes which are due to come into effect in September, passengers travelling from Bristol to London who currently use the 0900 BST train at a return cost of £49 will have to pay £59.

 

[glynn80]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, FGW can only increase prices on routes for which they set the fare. They are at the mercy of other rail operators on other routes (e.g. Cambridge-Reading is set by FCC and has no evening peak restrictions out of Paddington despite having them out of King's Cross). For the examples you quote, Bath-Norwich is priced by NXEA and Swindon-Newcastle by NXEC so they shouldn't be affected by these changes - but I'm sure glynn80 will confirm. (I don't have the new fares data.)

In the example quoted of Bath-Norwich, it is said that is under NXEA control. Would the same apply for Bristol-Norwich, Cardiff-Norwich or Swansea-Norwich. At some point the FGW portion must become the majority of the journey and FGW take control. What about a Penzance-Norwich ticket; I presume that must be under NXEA control ?

If the portion of the journey is reduced on NXEA to Chelmsford say, I would presume that Bath-Chelmsford and from Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea are more likely to be under FGW control.

First Great Western only have the power to alter the prices and the validity codes of the fares that they "set". They have no influence over the fares set by other operators and cannot force them to implement any of the alterations they carry out.

The boundary between who sets the fares on the Great Eastern route is at Ipswich. Anything north (and including) of Ipswich is set by NXEA and anything south is set by FGW.

The validity code set by NXEA on their fares from the Great Western region is 7B, which is significantly more lenient than the equivalent at FGW (allowing arrival into PAD after 1000) and as already stated there is nothing FGW can do about this.

These sorts of changes seen here are where the majority of current anomalies spring up, but that is the nature of the privatised railway and the system currently in use.