Finding common ground with others.

[Cowley]

Just as a counterpoint to the various political threads that seem to be causing our esteemed members to argue with each other...

How do you get on with people that are completely opposite to you?
Do you have a way of dealing with it? Or would you rather only have people around you that basically see things in the same way?
My best friend is the exact opposite from me politically, but somehow we seem to knock along and be able to listen to each other’s point of view even if we don’t always agree.
It feels to me that these days there’s an enormous amount of debate (especially online), but no meeting of minds whatsoever.
Just more and more polarisation...
We can’t all be right and we can’t all be wrong, so where’s the common ground to be found?

 

[Tetchytyke]

How do you get on with people that are completely opposite to you?
Do you have a way of dealing with it? Or are do you only have people around you that basically see things in the same way?

For me it depends how different, and in what way. I won't have actively racist people in my life and I won't have actively anti-gay people in my life. There's no common ground to be had with people like that.

But most people aren't really that strident. And there is common ground. I come from a relatively poor family in Bradford, so I see the frustration that led to Brexit votes and rants about immigrants and so on.

Sometimes we agree, sometimes we agree to disagree, and sometimes it's fun to have a debate over a beer or six.

But at the core it comes down to motives. We might not agree on how to achieve an outcome, but at least we agree on roughly what sort of outcomes we want.

Life would be boring if we always agreed on everything.

 

[nlogax]

Only the other weekend I was away drinking with a Leave-voting friend. She and I spent that time in Brussels, so while there were plenty of obvious opportunities to get into animated discussions about the B-word, instead we steered around the topic, ate a ton of crêpes, drank plenty of decent beers and had a laugh. No need to let divisive things divide. My friendship circles maintain a common element - people who are decent, aren't a**holes, who generally want everything to Be Alright In The End. That should be perfectly normal, shouldn't it? No big deal.

 

[najaB]

How do you get on with people that are completely opposite to you?

If they can express the reason for their views using dispassionate arguments then I'm happy to agree to disagree and frame our relationship around what we do agree on. As an example, my best friend of some 30 years is a devout Christian, and I'm (at best) an agnostic Atheist. We have discussed evidence for and against the existence of God, respectfully of the other's position.

If their view is based purely on prejudice or emotion then I'm happier to just not have them be a part of my life.

 

[kermit]

Thanks for setting up this thread, one of very few things to have cheered me up on the web lately. We have new-ish neighbours, who are passionate ( I nearly said rabid, but that was unworthy of me ) Leavers. Brexit, to me, feels like the worst thing that has happened in a very, very long time. But in word and deed, our neighbours have shown kindness and decency, and I hope we have shown the same to them. They are among the best neighbours we have ever had. We quickly realised whereabouts on the spectrum of opinion we each sit, and we talk about anything else. I'm glad of that.

 

[GusB]

I feel that no matter what the "bigger picture" displays, people tend to react more positively and decisively to what's going on on their own doorsteps. I go to my local pub and mix with people who are in favour of and against Brexit/Scottish Independence. Occasionally there will be a slightly warm debate, but ultimately the issues that affect us all is the littering, the downgrading of bin collections and (this is probably a common theme throughout the UK, if not the world) dog mess.

There is always common ground as long as you don't encapsulate yourself in little bubble and close yourself off to those around you. Perhaps I've lived in a village for too long (people make it their business to find out yours!), but even in big cities it's not that hard to make some connections.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The most beautiful example in my opinion comes from the USA. The late Antonin Scalia associate justice of the Supreme Court and Ruth Bader Ginsburg likewise. Vehemently politically opposed and judicially - but really great friends, opera lovers, went to dinner together etc. Exactly as it should be.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is about finding common ground with others

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else please create another thread, or use an existing one if there is one already. Thanks

 

[underbank]

Easy for me. I don't even try to be "friends" with anyone with strong beliefs, whatever they are. I am pretty "middle of the road" and that's what I look for in friends. I will put barriers up with anyone who is, say, far left or far right on the political spectrum, likewise anyone who is blatantly anti-gay or blatantly pro-gay, or a raging racist or strong feminist - I want to spend time with people who, like me, are happy to sit on the fence and live and let live. Anyone who tries to impose strong views/values on me one way or another, doesn't get my time nor interest in any walk of life. I can usually see both sides of an argument and I like to have friends who are the same. I'm happy to sway slightly one way or the other, but I absolutely loathe any kind of extremism in whatever form it takes.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

—— but I absolutely loathe any kind of extremism in whatever form it takes.

I love this point of view. Problem of course is - admittedly a minority - really believe their views are not extreme.

 

[algytaylor]

Talking over the internet doesn't really give a reason to back down. It doesn't matter if a debate goes on for days, weeks, months, even years. You also can't see how what you're saying affects the person you're talking with.

In real life, a conversation had a finite length, everyone knows that, and you can pick up on body language etc. So it's naturally a less confrontational form of discussion.

Therein lies the problem IMO. There's other stuff of course - "filter bubble" and whatnot - but I suspect the main issue is being able to ramble on forever without having a definitive end.

It's a new medium for all of us, and a suitable etiquette hasn't been established yet.

 

[43066]

Just as a counterpoint to the various political threads that seem to be causing our esteemed members to argue with each other...

How do you get on with people that are completely opposite to you?
Do you have a way of dealing with it? Or would you rather only have people around you that basically see things in the same way?
My best friend is the exact opposite from me politically, but somehow we seem to knock along and be able to listen to each other’s point of view even if we don’t always agree.
It feels to me that these days there’s an enormous amount of debate (especially online), but no meeting of minds whatsoever.
Just more and more polarisation...
We can’t all be right and we can’t all be wrong, so where’s the common ground to be found?

An excellent question in today’s polarised political world.

For me humour is key and generally “getting on” with a person transcends any and all political views - if I can laugh with someone, and we can share a joke, we will be 99% of the way to getting along more generally. Like many on here I’ve fallen out with many people over Brexit, but I can certainly respect a well researched and informed opinion that opposes my own.

I actually find conversations with (well informed) people I disagree with far more stimulating than an echo chamber which reflects my own opinions and views of the world.

I agree with previous posters regarding openly racist views or homophobic views, although those tend to be based on ignorance in my experience (some of the most racist and homophobic people I’ve encountered are ironically from minority groups themselves).

Overall, I don’t generally get on well with people who are unintelligent or badly informed: nor those who have a black and white world view and regard people with opposing views to theirs as somehow morally inferior.

There’s far too much of that around these days, from all sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Lucan]

If their view is based purely on prejudice or emotion then I'm happier to just not have them be a part of my life.

I believe that most opinions (including my own) are based on emotion in the final analysis. Your opinions are shaped by how you prefer your own life to be, which, beyond the requirements to eat and breath, is an emotion; and you will support the politics that is most likely to favour that life.

For example Person A wants a quiet reclusive life and Person B wants a loud party-going life. Both are emotional requirements, and neither are wrong, but their opinions on sociological matters will be inclined to favour their own lifestyle preference; they will however support their view in "logical" arguments, either unconsciously of deliberately fabricating them, and accuse their opponent of being unreasonable.

 

[najaB]

I believe that most opinions (including my own) are based on emotion in the final analysis. Your opinions are shaped by how you prefer your own life to be, which, beyond the requirements to eat and breath, is an emotion; and you will support the politics that is most likely to favour that life.

That is true. But even with that in mind I can "deal with" someone who can support their views with some evidence/logic as opposed to someone whose only answer is "because".

I might not agree with those views but I can appreciate that some thought has gone into shaping them.

 

[Techniquest]

Personally, in terms of political discussions, my solution is to not get involved whatsoever. I don't 'follow' (for want of a better word) politics and would rather talk about something else.

Don't get me wrong, I'll listen to the other person's opinions, and may even ask questions or whatever, but I'd much prefer to talk about other topics. Travel, work, favourite brands of coffee, the weather (yes really!) or something. Quite, a debate on the comfort level of modern train seats is more appealing than politics!

As for finding common ground with people, I generally don't bother socialising with others these days. I've got pretty good at enjoying my own company, which might sound a bit dull but compared to the alternative of conversing with topics along the lines of sports/adult activity/work/other boring topic, I'd rather in the majority of cases avoid un-necessary interactions. So finding common ground with most people, personally, I've given up on.

Now if there were more people I knew willing to discuss the pros and cons of, for example, having a Heathrow Rewards card or, for a different example, budget travel then I might actually be more willing to participate in socialising!

 

[nlogax]

I've got pretty good at enjoying my own company, which might sound a bit dull but compared to the alternative of conversing with topics along the lines of sports/adult activity/work/other boring topic, I'd rather in the majority of cases avoid un-necessary interactions.

Nothing dull or wrong with that. Time in our own company is time well spent. I genuinely can't empathise with those whom need to spend every moment of their social time in the company of friends or family.

 

[DarloRich]

I get on with all kinds of people and have only ever come across a couple of people I have disliked. We all have common ground about all kinds of things. For instance, people generally want the best for their kids, we all want to live in a safe world and be fit and healthy and have meaningful relationships and have secure work and good housing. People actually agree on quite a lot and the differences are not massive and are often based on experience (or lack there of) of life, education, background and wealth.

Getting on with people is a skill that we need to learn and to do that we have to understand the kind of gently searching questions we as humans use to initiate conversation and seek common ground.

Nothing dull or wrong with that. Time in our own company is time well spent. I genuinely can't empathise with those whom need to spend every moment of their social time in the company of friends or family.

but by the same token being a shut in isnt good for you either. You need a mixture of contact.

 

[Techniquest]

Nothing dull or wrong with that. Time in our own company is time well spent. I genuinely can't empathise with those whom need to spend every moment of their social time in the company of friends or family.

If there was a 'like' button I'd certainly be pressing it for that post! I used to hate my own company, and I'd move heaven and Earth to socialise with as many people as I could, just to avoid my own trains of thought.

Ever since I departed for Tokyo, and left my phone on flight mode from the moment thè doors closed on the flight out of Frankfurt, until the moment I arrived back at Heathrow, I've found things to be much calmer in my own head. Earlier this year, I was on social media all the time, but in recent months I've grown to dislike the idea of too much time on Facebook, Instagram and so on. I use Twitter a bit, but mostly when I'm on a World Frenzy trip.

Granted, I do use YouTube a lot. I have to have something to do other than going on power-walking sprees after all! Besides YouTube, I suppose this forum is about it for being social online, well that and sharing trip reports on WordPress. What's interesting though is observing the average person and their obsession with social media. No thanks! I do share holiday photos on Facebook, but that is pretty much it these days.

It's not to say I never socialise with other people, I do with some of my squad at work, and I do text a few people as well, it's just I'm very selective who I socialise with. I don't think that's a bad thing at all.

What's interesting, although I'm also certain it's co-incidence, is that this level of calm and order has mostly begun since my brief visit to that temple in Tokyo. Co-incidence? Almost guaranteed, but there's no way of finding out for sure. What matters is that all is good here and I've not felt this level of order in many a month.

Going back to the thread title, since I've been going wildly off-topic, finding common ground with others is relatively easy. Once you find another individual that shares that common interest. That is the hardest bit, and it can only really be done with a lot of conversing with a lot of topics to find that common ground.

 

[GrimShady]

It really doesn't affect me what views people have. I'm grown up enough to not be threatened by them, having said that, people who play identity politics generally make me sick...I can still have a discussion with them.

Edit: I should add it's extremely difficult to find common ground with stupid people or non visualisers.

 

[scotrail158713]

but by the same token being a shut in isnt good for you either. You need a mixture of contact.

Yep, definitely. However I know some people who won't even consider going to something on their own. I don't mind that though - I'm happy to socialise but don't mind my own company as well.
For example, just a couple of weeks ago I started going to referee training on a Wednesday night where I know absolutely nobody - that didn't bother me though I know some people who would hate that.

 

[Calthrop]

I believe that most opinions (including my own) are based on emotion in the final analysis. Your opinions are shaped by how you prefer your own life to be, which, beyond the requirements to eat and breath, is an emotion; and you will support the politics that is most likely to favour that life.

For example Person A wants a quiet reclusive life and Person B wants a loud party-going life. Both are emotional requirements, and neither are wrong, but their opinions on sociological matters will be inclined to favour their own lifestyle preference; they will however support their view in "logical" arguments, either unconsciously of deliberately fabricating them, and accuse their opponent of being unreasonable.

I thoroughly agree here. It would appear to me that in the main (not 100% of the time for 100% of people), humans operate primarily according to emotion, rather than reason. It's possible -- the more so, the cleverer a mental gymnast one is -- to put forward cogent-seeming logically / rationally-based arguments, for or against pretty well any imaginable proposition: but, a great deal of the time, people opine what they basically want to opine; and then rope in (pseudo)-logic and reason afterwards, to justify or refute.

Yep, definitely. However I know some people who won't even consider going to something on their own. I don't mind that though- <snip>

The horror of going to things on one's own, can truly be a bugbear. In, and for a fair while beyond, my long-ago youth; somewhat foolishly, I heavily bought into the proposition that "going places and doing things" on my own -- contented enough though I was, for myself, to do that -- branded me as a despicably sad "Billy-no-mates" type: my efforts to avoid this perceived stigma, brought to me a lot of misery re both missing out on things, and lumbering myself with incompatible companions. Far too late in life, the realisation dawned on me that I had, after all, no need to regard the bilge spouted by bigoted twits of the "loner = loser" persuasion, as though it were Holy Writ.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I believe that most opinions (including my own) are based on emotion in the final analysis.

And those emotions are often the same on both sides of the divide.

Take Brexit. Leavers tend to be angry at the state of their country- fewer jobs, poorer quality jobs, stagnant wages. And they blame "the elite" for the malaise.

I'm a remainer because I'm angry at the state of my country- fewer jobs, poorer quality jobs, stagnant wages. And I blame "the elite" for the malaise.

The only difference is who gets blamed. My emotional instinct is to kick up- those in charge cause the mess, and they're responsible for massive inequality.

Others' instinct is to kick down, thinking other groups (e.g. migrants) get more help than they should.

But as the blame is an emotional thing, persuading people with facts doesn't work. I'm an actual qualified benefits adviser and people will still argue with me about how benefit law allows scrounging. It's why the Leave campaign failed.

 

[DerekC]

I think achieving common ground is much easier if you are in face to face contact with people and have something to work on together. I live in a small village where many people have different political opinions from me (lots of Tory and "Leave" posters) yet on things to do with the community we all work together quite happily to get things done. That generates mutual respect, which I think is what we have somehow lost as a nation.

 

[JaMa9]

Well of course people will have opposing views on some things and that's fine so long as your common ground is similar at the core. I want to be surrounded by people in life who I can relate to and have similar values to my own. No point in wasting time with those I can't see eye to eye with. I will simply not associate with them or if I have to (in the workplace for example), will just be polite and stick to bare minimum contact.

 

[Sweetjesus]

I get along with a lot of people with opposing views just fine.

For me, the struggle is not what kind of views they hold, most people don't hold extreme views.

What I struggle with is that some people will contribute their effort, money, etc towards their belief in a way that causes myself to suffer. Even if this is unintentional.

 

[Techniquest]

I couldn't help but think of this thread when I saw Domino's and their current advert on TV last night, in which instead of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) their product, in this case a big night in meal deal, also came with JOMO (Joy Of Missing Out). I like that!

 

[Cowley]

I couldn't help but think of this thread when I saw Domino's and their current advert on TV last night, in which instead of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) their product, in this case a big night in meal deal, also came with JOMO (Joy Of Missing Out). I like that!

I heard that phrase for the first time the other day and really liked it!

 

[Master29]

I despise fascism but I have to say my grandfather was a black shirt from the East end in the 30's and he was the best father figure and positive influence I had in my life. I never agreed with what he believed in but he was basically a decent, kind and caring man who like many others got caught up with the times. I will ever think of him in these terms.

I despise the right wing of this country but he had a very good understanding of humanity. He still nurtured those right wing attitudes until he died but to me he was a great man despite his politics.

 

[43066]

I despise fascism but I have to say my grandfather was a black shirt from the East end in the 30's and he was the best father figure and positive influence I had in my life. I never agreed with what he believed in but he was basically a decent, kind and caring man who like many others got caught up with the times. I will ever think of him in these terms.

Most people of that era were extremely anti Semitic and racist by modern standards. However, it’s important to judge people in the context of the values of the era in which they grew up, rather than by modern standards.

My late grandmother’s first husband was also a black shirt. He then went on to become a decorated bomber pilot during WWII, so was clearly an honourable man who fought for his country and performed many brave deeds to oppose fascism!

 

[DerekC]

Most people of that era were extremely anti Semitic and racist by modern standards.

I think that's a great injustice to many people of that generation. If you haven't already, read about the Battle of Cable Street and try to imagine that happening now. My dad's family were Quakers, but the things he saw in Germany in the late 1930s persuaded him to join up as soon as war was declared in 1939. Most people knew what they were fighting for!