Fined for dropping a Cig down a Drain..

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Butts, 23 Nov 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    Just watching the new BBC prog - "That's Britain"

    A guy has just been fined for dropping a cigarette butt down a drain....

    Offence was "fouling a water culvert" or something like that.

    If he denied the charge how are they going to produce the evidence?

    As far as I could see the warden or whatever didn't have a camera so it would be his word against the offender.

    Plus surely it is better to dispose of it down a drain rather than chuck it into a bin where it may start a fire.

    I don't agree with discarding butts on the pavement but down a drain ....for heavens sake :roll:
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,383
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Birmingham
    It still has to be cleaned up though
     
  4. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    Eh.......

    It was dropped down a drain where it would join the other detrius flowing in from the gutter.
     
  5. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,383
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Which ends up either in a river, the sea or a treatment plant. Obviously the former two don't need removal (but it is polluting) but the third does, even when filtered
     
  6. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,224
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    I'd have just run away, laughing.

    What a joke.
     
  7. caliwag

    caliwag Member

    Messages:
    586
    Joined:
    29 Mar 2009
    Location:
    York
    Yup...I agree, appalling habit. A warning would have been enough though surely?
     
  8. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    I know the Council are desperate for money but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel :p

    The main problem is lack of provision of bins for butts and other rubbish - people don't tend to discard rubbish in a tidy environment.

    No bins = no shame (for some) in lobbing rubbish on the deck.
     
  9. SteveP29

    SteveP29 Member

    Messages:
    526
    Joined:
    23 Apr 2011
    Location:
    Chester le Street/ Edinburgh
    And your point is?

    All drains are connected to a sewer which runs by gravity or sometimes pump fed to a waste water treatment works. All solid matter (grit, stones, paper, feminine hygiene products are removed via filtering and sedimentation, leaving water polluted by chemicals and human/ animal waste.

    The only possibility that this tab end can get into a river is when in times of flooding, the water company is allowed to discharge flow (which are above agreed levels or operating capacity)via the critical sewer overflows into a river. Chances are, your tab end is going to be caught by the treatment works.

    Far worse a consequence, is that this solid waste will be incinerated.
     
  10. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,560
    Joined:
    17 Apr 2011
    Location:
    The most select part of rural Cheshire East.
    What exactly is the position in law of causing a portion of a cigarette to be dropped to the floor (be it on a pavement or down a drain) by an individual? I am sure there are those on the forum can give the legal definition of this matter.
     
  11. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2009
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Environmental Protection Act 1990. Section 87.
    There is no offence committed by just dropping it, only by dropping it and leaving it.

    It doesn't seem to be accurate to say all.
    e.g.

     
    Last edited: 24 Nov 2011
  12. Skoodle

    Skoodle Member

    Messages:
    292
    Joined:
    26 Apr 2010
    You'll often find undercover wardens waiting outside Highbury & Islington station ready to pounce on smokers who drop their butts.
     
  13. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    Easy money eh .....

    Going back to the other side of my original post - if you drop it down a drain and they didn't film it how do they prove it if you contest it ? ie the evidence has "gone down the drain" !!
     
  14. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

    Messages:
    4,406
    Joined:
    9 Jan 2009
    What are you supposed to do with cigarette butts then? Carry them around in your pocket? I don't think so. I don't smoke (any more) but persecution of smokers has gone waaaay too far already without this additional lunacy. A fag butt is a very small thing, and in the scheme of things not a massive nuisance. But smokers are just fair game: public enemy number one at the moment, so should expect little sympathy when disproportionate measures are taken against them for trivial matters.

    Too many (usually thick) people minding too many other people's business. It's the same at airports where baboons in uniform are allowed to take x-rays of people just trying to go about their business.
     
  15. curly42

    curly42 Member

    Messages:
    703
    Joined:
    23 May 2008
    Surely the butt would break down into its component parts rather quickly ?
     
  16. red circle

    red circle Member

    Messages:
    66
    Joined:
    1 Jan 2010
    Location:
    near Ongar
    I have always wondered why people give thier names and adresses to council snoopers in the first place,surely the natural reaction is to tell them to get stuffed and walk off.
     
  17. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    16,426
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    In the video the lady who dropped the cigarette butt was only a few metres away from a rubbish bin which could have been used to extinguish the cigarette and dispose of it properly.
     
  18. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

    Messages:
    2,552
    Joined:
    19 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Kent
    Well maybe people should dispose of their litter properly.....

    Yes, why not? It's a lot better idea than littering the place up by selfishly dropping them on the ground.

    It all adds up. Maybe you find streets strewn with litter to be acceptable, but I don't. It's about time they cracked down on it.

    Yeah, fancy trying to protect people from harm....
    No. A cigarette takes 3-10 months to mostly decompose and some say it can take up to as much as twelve years; however, the filter which is made of acetate will NEVER fully break down.
     
  19. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

    Messages:
    4,406
    Joined:
    9 Jan 2009

    Certainly what I would do. Why would anyone give their name to anyone who came up to them in the street who wasn't a Police officer?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    What harm? You seem to have bought into this nonsense, so perhaps you'd elaborate what makes it OK for trained monkeys to force people into humiliating situations in airports.
     
  20. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

    Messages:
    3,704
    Joined:
    24 Aug 2009
    Location:
    On a plane somewhere at 35,000
    Whilst a cigarette butt may be a "small think" in isolation, you only have to look at areas where smokers now congregate to see what quickly happens.

    If a person chooses to smoke then they are responsible for making sure they put their rubbish in a bin or other receptacle. Why should smokers be given rights to drop their detritus wherever they wish ? This is nothing to do with the persecution of smokers but simply a matter that society has started to become fed up with people (such as smokers) who feel they have a God-given right above all others to simply drop whatever litter they have on the streets. There are plenty of surveys that now link behaviour with the environment in which people are, and this includes the negative factors generated by rubbish and litter lying in the streets.

    It is just chance that the person was a smoker. I have no doubt the Wardens would have acted the same if it had been a McDonalds burger box, or fish and chip wrappings.

    This Country is an untidy place, and I for one welcome action by Councils to tackle this sort of anti-social behaviour. Why should I as a Council tax payer, pay for to clean up after inconsiderates, who may well not even live in my area ?

    They don't "take" x-rays, you walk through a machine that scans the body.

    May I ask how many times a year you fly, and whether you would prefer a body rub down instead ?

    9/11 and 22nd Dec 2001 unfortunately chnaged flying beyond all recognition and we will never get back to where we were. That particular Pandora's Box is well open.

    I fly regularly and find the differeing levels of security check a real inconvenience for example the scanners and checks at Schiphol are far greater in some respects than at UK airports, yet Brussels seem less so.

    BHX always pulls my wheeled laptop case apart on a regular basis and strips my camera down, whereas Schiphol are happy with things taken out.

    Some airports require shoes and belts removed, some dont some prefer one or the other.

    As I said it is a pain and a definite inconvenience especially when transferring and moreso if the incoming sector is late, but unfortunately although I have some ideas as to how things could be improved, I cannot see any changes in the near future.
     
  21. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

    Messages:
    24,560
    Joined:
    17 Apr 2011
    Location:
    The most select part of rural Cheshire East.
    There was a programme on BBC1 this morning where two enforcement officers were in Central Liverpool and monitoring the dropping of litter of any sort by members of the general public and it was stated that the amount of the fine for dropping a cigarette butt and leaving it on the ground was £75.00 in Liverpool. Everyone they spoke to claimed not to know that an offence had been committed. Has there been enough public information made available either in television or press to make the position clear with regard to litter of any sort....or do people just choose to ignore it?

    The matter of smoking in public areas such as bus stations and railway stations, let alone the problems associated with discarded cigarettes butts that are part of this problem, is known to the majority of offenders, who choose not to listen to announcements made over the public address system (as occurs in bus stations operated by TfGM) or to read any posted notices.

    Some people whom I have seen spoken to in Stockport bus station about smoking seem to have their own particular personal version of where smoking is allowed and claim "I was not smoking in the bus shelter itself" or "there is no law stopping me smoking anywhere I choose to do so", even when escorted to the notices stating that smoking is not allowed ANYWHERE in the area of the bus station and the bus roadways.
     
  22. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,224
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    What would happen if you refused to give your details to one of these "wardens"?

    Could you be detained or arrested by the police?
     
  23. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

    Messages:
    3,704
    Joined:
    24 Aug 2009
    Location:
    On a plane somewhere at 35,000
    If you refuse or if you give a false name and address, it is a criminal offence with a penalty of £1000.

    If you walk away there is every likelihood that the various CCTV monitors will be used to track you down at which point you can be arrested under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.
     
  24. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,383
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Birmingham
    We can't look at one butt in isolation though. Imagine if all those butts you see placed properly in the bin were, in fact, on the floor or down a sewer. Now let's say that it was not a fag end but instead a takeaway box which will float since I cannot imagine that, unlike what the OP infers, this person was treated any differently simply because it was a cigarette.

    Some groups of smokers appear to have a persecution complex when the reality is often that the toxic effects of second-hand smoke and the unsightly litter need to be moderated. I for one have been glad that I need no longer wash my clothes immediately after going the pub and I'm sure all of us know the gauntlet of the doorway to public places. I do not blame smokers for that since it is the obvious solution

    Finally it is not the council's responsibility to provide rubbish bins every 100m which may end up being vandalised by just the kind of person who'd, and I quote,
     
  25. Smethwickian

    Smethwickian Member

    Messages:
    547
    Joined:
    9 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Errr, Smethwick!
    Shocking. How on earth can people claim not to know it's an offence (and, simply, downright antisocial) to drop litter? How badly brought-up are people these days?

    Litter is litter. End of.
     
  26. Railguy220

    Railguy220 Member

    Messages:
    84
    Joined:
    12 Apr 2011
    Location:
    Prudhoe, Northumberland
    This whole ciggy butt droping could have a positive outcome, we could employ people to pick them up! Unemployment issue solved! :lol:
     
  27. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    Also as I mentioned before if you denied the offence and the "Butt" is down a sewer where is the evidence for a prosecution?

    It's you word against theirs - thank god for corroboration (at the moment) in the Scottish Legal System.
     
  28. Old Timer

    Old Timer Established Member

    Messages:
    3,704
    Joined:
    24 Aug 2009
    Location:
    On a plane somewhere at 35,000
    The same place it would be if a solitary Police Officer was there.

    The legal system requires you to swear on oath before giving evidence and lying in Court is a serious offence.

    However I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Do you think it is OK for people to drop litter and walk away ?
     
  29. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    Not at all - I am attempting to differentiate between dropping a butt on the pavement or road where it remains an eyesore, or dropping it down down a drain whereupon it disappears from view.
     
  30. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,224
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2008
    Location:
    Milton Keynes
    I don't understand your point. Are you saying one is okay and the other is not? Confused.
     
  31. Butts

    Butts Established Member

    Messages:
    8,444
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Casnewydd
    The main complaint about discarding butts on the pavement and not in a bin is that it creates a mess which has to be cleared up and is unsightly.

    If you drop it down a drain neither apply :p
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page