Fire on board Hull Trains 1A93 10 May 2018

[staticsteve]

2 I think, they only have 4 180s.

Thanks.

If that's the case, then surely they can't operate a normal timetable.

Is it on the cards that they might just throw in the towel and cease operations? I can't imagine it's profitable for then to be running services with many delays, cancellations and repairs.

 

[Andrewh32]

It was 180110 today.

Just to confirm that is the same unit as December

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks.

If that's the case, then surely they can't operate a normal timetable.

Is it on the cards that they might just throw in the towel and cease operations? I can't imagine it's profitable for then to be running services with many delays, cancellations and repairs.

They really seem to be in dire straits. I would imagine they need 3 units for a normal service.

 

[Domh245]

Thanks.

If that's the case, then surely they can't operate a normal timetable.

Is it on the cards that they might just throw in the towel and cease operations? I can't imagine it's profitable for then to be running services with many delays, cancellations and repairs.

I severely doubt it, seeing as they've got new stock on order, so they clearly think it's a viable long term operation otherwise they wouldn't have ordered it. They might however lean on Hitachi to see if they can get their 802s into service sooner than planned, or potentially start looking at other stock as an interim solution - off lease HSTs (with a hope of getting one 802 into service by 2020), or maybe even LHCS as they've done in the past.

Edit to add: They are looking to get their 802s into service from December 2019 according to this article, so an off lease HST seems even more of a viable solution to provide a bit of redundancy against the 180s

 

[Andrewh32]

They really seem to be in dire straits. I would imagine they need 3 units for a normal service.

Correct 3 for a full timetable

 

[hexagon789]

I severely doubt it, seeing as they've got new stock on order, so they clearly think it's a viable long term operation otherwise they wouldn't have ordered it. They might however lean on Hitachi to see if they can get their 802s into service sooner than planned, or potentially start looking at other stock as an interim solution - off lease HSTs (with a hope of getting one 802 into service by 2020), or maybe even LHCS as they've done in the past.

Edit to add: They are looking to get their 802s into service from December 2019 according to this article, so an off lease HST seems even more of a viable solution to provide a bit of redundancy against the 180s

HSTs for Hull Trains, how things change! Certainly it's the simplest option using off-lease, presumably GWR HSTs.

 

[staticsteve]

I severely doubt it, seeing as they've got new stock on order, so they clearly think it's a viable long term operation otherwise they wouldn't have ordered it. They might however lean on Hitachi to see if they can get their 802s into service sooner than planned, or potentially start looking at other stock as an interim solution - off lease HSTs (with a hope of getting one 802 into service by 2020), or maybe even LHCS as they've done in the past.

Edit to add: They are looking to get their 802s into service from December 2019 according to this article, so an off lease HST seems even more of a viable solution to provide a bit of redundancy against the 180s

Thanks for the information. I see, yes, that makes sense. I hadn't realised about their long term plans.

 

[jon0844]

Now at WGC with two fire engines.

 

[malc-c]

Here's a still, video is in the process of uploading

 

[DaiGog]

It was indeed 180110 today, but not the same vehicle that was involved in December. A hydraulic fluid leak is one possible cause (not fuel), which ignited when it came into contact with the engine. The fire detection system seemingly did its job, with the fire being extinguished quickly. What caused the bang remains to be seen when it is returned to depot, hopefully later this evening, but presumably it was the fire bottles going off as there was no structural damage to the engine visible. Part of the vinyls have blistered with the heat above one bogie.

As the train came to rest in a station platform, evacuation was made safely, quickly and efficiently by the on-board crew with passengers sent on their way by road a little while afterwards. Not a nice experience for those on board, obviously, but it was nowhere near on the scale of the December incident involving the same unit.

180110 was moved under its own power to Welwyn garden City, where is has undergone a thorough inspection by the fire service and maintenance staff from HT and GWR.

HT has all four units in regular service following the December incident and ice/snow damage during the early part of 2018, with no GC units on hire at present. Three are required for the daily service and with one on exam at the moment, cancellations will occur at least tomorrow.

 

[BestWestern]

HSTs for Hull Trains, how things change! Certainly it's the simplest option using off-lease, presumably GWR HSTs.

Except for the huge amount of crew training and moutain of paperwork that would be required. A move from power door to slam door stock would be a massive administration task. Not a simple option at all, in real terms.

 

[hexagon789]

Except for the huge amount of crew training and moutain of paperwork that would be required. A move from power door to slam door stock would be a massive administration task. Not a simple option at all, in real terms.

I was joking. I meant that it was funny to think that the 180s, which arguably were built to partly replace the HSTs (they have done so for Grand Central), could potentially be replaced by HSTs.

Obviously it's unlikely but there is little alternative 125 mph stock about so it may end up that HT have litle alternative other than to drastically reduce services.

 

[joncombe]

Why did they get rid of their 222s and replace them with 180s? It seems the former was far more reliable than the latter. Was it do with the takeover by First and First either prefering or already leasing the 180s?

 

[Failed Unit]

Why did they get rid of their 222s and replace them with 180s? It seems the former was far more reliable than the latter. Was it do with the takeover by First and First either prefering or already leasing the 180s?

More seats was probably the main one. But I think DfT greased some palms to get more 222s to midland mainline.

 

[hexagon789]

Why did they get rid of their 222s and replace them with 180s? It seems the former was far more reliable than the latter. Was it do with the takeover by First and First either prefering or already leasing the 180s?

Originally they leased two 180s in 2008 to clear a maintenance backlog on the 222s, they then leased a further two 180s which allowed all of the 222s to be transferred to EMT in 2009.

 

[BestWestern]

I was joking. I meant that it was funny to think that the 180s, which arguably were built to partly replace the HSTs (they have done so for Grand Central), could potentially be replaced by HSTs.

Obviously it's unlikely but there is little alternative 125 mph stock about so it may end up that HT have litle alternative other than to drastically reduce services.

Oh! I thought it was a genuine observation, sorry! To be fair, it's a reasonably sensible comment, you never know!

 

[robbeech]

A post on twitter yesterday suggests they are struggling with cooling and at least one unit is running permenantly on less than the full compliment of engines.

There have been 3 lots of cancellations on separate days in the last week due to trains breaking down. It’s difficult to know if it’s the same one and what the faults are but if it’s different trains then it averages out that every train breaks down (and causes a round of cancellations) at least once every two weeks. They can run a full service on 3 so to cancel a round of services must mean that they’re down to 2.
It’s sadly not been uncommon for them to have only 1 and even 0 of their trains in service.

The important thing today is that everyone is safe, it sounds like on board staff did a good job as they usually do with everything. It’s a shame their reliability is so incredibly poor at the moment.

 

[hexagon789]

Oh! I thought it was a genuine observation, sorry! To be fair, it's a reasonably sensible comment, you never know!

Well, half-joking. Mind you people were joking about HSTs to ScotRail and lo-and-behold...

As you say, strnger things have happened. They did operate a Mk3 loco-hauled set when they were extremely short on 222s so it's possible I suppose.

 

[malc-c]

Video uploaded

 

[TUC]

Frustratingly for passengers on the route VTEC's 1719 Kings Cross-Hull was also cancelled today.

 

[TUC]

The effects on HT services for tonight and tomorrow have now been published https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/service-alterations-10th-may-2018/

 

[robbeech]

Frustratingly for passengers on the route VTEC's 1719 Kings Cross-Hull was also cancelled today.

Yes. I did think that was a disappointing choice of cancellations given the situation. Their twitter feed seems to suggest that the cancellation is related to earlier disruption caused by the fire.

 

[tellytype]

Some better shots of the unit in the naughty corner at WHC earlier

 

[hexagon789]

The effects on HT services for tonight and tomorrow have now been published https://www.hulltrains.co.uk/service-alterations-10th-may-2018/

So that equates to one diagram a day cancelled I take it then?

 

[robbeech]

So that equates to one diagram a day cancelled I take it then?

Yes and I believe (someone correct me if I’m wrong) that this means they are down to 2 trains.

 

[Andrewh32]

So that equates to one diagram a day cancelled I take it then?

Yes just 2 units available for service when they need 3 for a full timetable. Believe the other unit is having an Exam

 

[hexagon789]

Yes and I believe (someone correct me if I’m wrong) that this means they are down to 2 trains.

Yes just 2 units available for service when they need 3 for a full timetable. Believe the other unit is having an Exam

I knew they were down to two 180s, but I'm not really familiar with HT's diagramming.

 

[Crossover]

A post on twitter yesterday suggests they are struggling with cooling and at least one unit is running permenantly on less than the full compliment of engines.

I recall the 180's (across all the TOC's I think) had a period where they were suffering from overheating, possibly due to blocked radiator grilles from pollen and such like. Not sure if this is a problem that remains, but the weather at the weekend was unseasonably warm

 

[corsaVXR]

I particularly like that the firemen, in their helmets and protective clothing, are all standing well back. However, three guys in hi viz are fine getting up close.

If it's the same unit as the one that had the earlier incident, anyone know if it's the same car?

 

[tgrb]

How come so many GWR guys there and so quickly, they don’t look after the 180s any more do they? I know part of the same group.... prehaps the only people who understand them!?