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Fire on board Hull Trains 1A93 10 May 2018

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Bletchleyite

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I recall the 180's (across all the TOC's I think) had a period where they were suffering from overheating, possibly due to blocked radiator grilles from pollen and such like. Not sure if this is a problem that remains, but the weather at the weekend was unseasonably warm

The things are just utter garbage and need scrapping ASAP (which is a shame as the interiors are nice). I wonder what it's doing to their passenger numbers? People put up with GTR being rubbish because there's usually no realistic choice - there very much is a choice for most HT passengers.

Would they get 110mph paths if they hired in Mk3s from TPE once they are done with those? I'm sure there are enough 67s and 68s about to pull them?
 
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hexagon789

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The things are just utter garbage and need scrapping ASAP (which is a shame as the interiors are nice). I wonder what it's doing to their passenger numbers? People put up with GTR being rubbish because there's usually no realistic choice - there very much is a choice for most HT passengers.

Would they get 110mph paths if they hired in Mk3s from TPE once they are done with those? I'm sure there are enough 67s and 68s about to pull them?

The 180s are fine above solebar height, it's everything below that seems to be a disaster.

68s are only 100 mph locos though; I think 67s would be a better option despite being less powerful.
 

Andrewh32

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For info, 180110 is currently taking itself back to Crofton albeit at a reduced speed so can't be in that bad condition
 

jon0844

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The 180s are fine above solebar height, it's everything below that seems to be a disaster.

But get rid of everything below and the train wouldn't run very well. Although some could argue it wouldn't be much worse than now.
 

hexagon789

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But get rid of everything below and the train wouldn't run very well. Although some could argue it wouldn't be much worse than now.

Well not get rid but rather replace. The engines are the same type as in the 22x so presumably it's the features that differ which cause issues such as the different transmission.
 

swt_passenger

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How come so many GWR guys there and so quickly, they don’t look after the 180s any more do they? I know part of the same group.... prehaps the only people who understand them!?
More likely they are 200 miles closer...
 

Andrewh32

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Sorry looked at the info on rtt which said timed for 74mph so assumed that is the speed it would be traveling at
 

37057

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Well not get rid but rather replace. The engines are the same type as in the 22x so presumably it's the features that differ which cause issues such as the different transmission.

They're fairly old engines which have probably been rebuilt on the cheap a few times already so they're going to have issues. The accountants probably won't sympathise I bet.

Fuel pipes can work loose or chaff through, depends how thorough the maintenance regime is to identify issues like this. It could be as simple as ballast striking a fuel filter if a fuel leak is the cause...

Doesn't mean the whole driveline needs reinventing though.
 

hexagon789

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They're fairly old engines which have probably been rebuilt on the cheap a few times already so they're going to have issues. The accountants probably won't sympathise I bet.

Fuel pipes can work loose or chaff through, depends how thorough the maintenance regime is to identify issues like this. It could be as simple as ballast striking a fuel filter if a fuel leak is the cause...

Doesn't mean the whole driveline needs reinventing though.

True, they just seem far more unreliable that the 22x which have electric transmission and I'm sure that the transmission was one of the areas in which issues arose when they were first introduced.
 

Bletchleyite

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True, they just seem far more unreliable that the 22x which have electric transmission and I'm sure that the transmission was one of the areas in which issues arose when they were first introduced.

But the transmission is just an evolution of the Sprinter transmission which is extremely reliable.
 

DaiGog

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They're fairly old engines which have probably been rebuilt on the cheap a few times already so they're going to have issues. The accountants probably won't sympathise I bet.

Fuel pipes can work loose or chaff through, depends how thorough the maintenance regime is to identify issues like this. It could be as simple as ballast striking a fuel filter if a fuel leak is the cause...

Doesn't mean the whole driveline needs reinventing though.

The engines are replaced as necessary, either when their time is due, or in the event of a failure. There are standards to be met with such things so there is no doing it 'on the cheap'. It wasn't a fuel pipe, and the investigation will reveal what went wrong, but you're right in that something like a piece of dislodged ballast can damage things, especially at high speeds.
 

jon0844

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They were a lot closer to Welwyn than the HT fitters were, and a technical inspection was required before the train was allowed to move.

Apparently the Old Oak Common guys were blue lighted to Welwyn North, explaining how they arrived so quickly.
 

edwin_m

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But the transmission is just an evolution of the Sprinter transmission which is extremely reliable.
It's the same concept but is having to deliver more power at higher speeds than any previous application in the UK at least. It also has a retarder, although I think that may now have been isolated as it was the cause of many problems earlier on.

However the 175s seem to have been just as problematic on less onerous duties, similar to those of the 168/170 and 186 that don't seem to have suffered unduly from transmission problems. Which suggests Alstom got something wrong in the design that Bombardier and Siemens got right. Is Alstom or anyone else using this sort of transmission in overseas products with similar duties, and has it had problems there too?
 

hexagon789

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But the transmission is just an evolution of the Sprinter transmission which is extremely reliable.

Well it's 3-stage instead of 2 and has integrated hydrodynamic braking (as per the 175s) and that part was very unsuccessful.

I can see that it may not be the transmission, but that just seemed to me to be the primary difference between the 180s and the more reliable 22x classes.
 

westv

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I notice that today's GC service from Kings X has been cancelled due to a train fault.
Any connection at all to yesterday?
 

swt_passenger

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It was the rear unit that had caught fire.
A line block was placed and the unit inspected, and shortly after they powered up the front two units and it made its own way to the sidings at Welwyn Garden City...
I believe you have wrongly written unit a few times instead of coach?
 

Crossover

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Which would require sustained 125 running, so seeming no speed restriction on the train.

At a guess, I would imagine it would be on 4 engines. If they are anything like the Voyagers, an engine out may not impede the performance that much.
 

37057

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The engines are replaced as necessary, either when their time is due, or in the event of a failure. There are standards to be met with such things so there is no doing it 'on the cheap'. It wasn't a fuel pipe, and the investigation will reveal what went wrong, but you're right in that something like a piece of dislodged ballast can damage things, especially at high speeds.

Probably a sloppy choice of words. ''Cost efficient'' is what I should have typed then!

My intention was to include the structure of the maintenance regime of high performing DMUs (specifically the QSK19) in connection with their reliability, while also ruling out the idea of ''re-design it!'' too as that's the usual-unrealistic scenario that gets plastered across this forum, as has already mentioned.

There must be an element of financial risk somewhere along the line with quality taking a hit. I've seen some nasty damage on ''fresh'' engines lately. Just makes you wonder what the deal is and what quality controls are in place.

On another note we've had a unit come back with a bin bag wrapped around a turbo!

Most reliability issues go unnoticed by most of the world. It can be something as simple as a wiring design that can bring performance down yet people still try pin point it by whether there's an electric motor or a hydraulic transmission driving the axle...
 
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hexagon789

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At a guess, I would imagine it would be on 4 engines. If they are anything like the Voyagers, an engine out may not impede the performance that much.

It was more that it was mentioned the train was being run slow rather than anything to do with the ability of a 180 to attain 125 with one engine out.
 

malc-c

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Can anyone confirm what the actual cause was? I've had a comment on my video claiming it was the Auxiliary battery/s have fried.
 

malc-c

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Guys,

Almost a year ago I shot a video of a class 180 that had caught fire through Welwyn North tunnels with an evacuation at Welwyn North station.


Several people have commented of why the inspectors and engineers were wearing GWR hi vis vests. If anyone knows, could you either let me know in this thread, or post a reply in the comments of the video.

Thanks
 
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