First Bus Introduce Social Distancing

[Bantamzen]

So people are expendable but the economy is not - why bother with social distancing at all ?

Is it all a big con social distancing ?

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a con, however it has been made to appear to be a panacea when it clearly isn't. You only have to look across the Channel to see that France has maintained distancing of 1m, not 2m. Why? Well speculation has it that our government didn't trust the country to observe just 1m distancing, so 2m was chosen. If this is true then some credibility is definitely lost.

The economy is people. There isn't a tradeoff - if we can't return to some sort of normality and the economy massively contracts, how are we going to pay for the NHS? Or any other service?

Exactly, the cost of the crisis is estimated as topping £300 billion, that's over twice the budget for the NHS alone. An extended lockdown will cost hundreds of billions more, all of which we will have to try to borrow, or tax. It cannot go on. Period.

 

[Butts]

The economy is people. There isn't a tradeoff - if we can't return to some sort of normality and the economy massively contracts, how are we going to pay for the NHS? Or any other service?

Yes I accept that - but is it nonsense to continue with social distancing whilst sending full planes up into the sky ?

 

[richw]

Yes I accept that - but is it nonsense to continue with social distancing whilst sending full planes up into the sky ?

Choosing to fly I’m guessing for 99% is a choice they can avoid, so it’s a risk they are happy to take?

 

[Butts]

Choosing to fly I’m guessing for 99% is a choice they can avoid, so it’s a risk they are happy to take?

Well if people are allowed effectively to choose to take the risk this could be applied to all sorts of things - BBQ with family in the back garden ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a con, however it has been made to appear to be a panacea when it clearly isn't. You only have to look across the Channel to see that France has maintained distancing of 1m, not 2m. Why? Well speculation has it that our government didn't trust the country to observe just 1m distancing, so 2m was chosen. If this is true then some credibility is definitely lost.

Is it? Or is it clever, accepting that British people are by and large a bunch of rebels (though slightly less rebellious than the Government expected, it seems) and that designing measures in that way is very sensible?

It's like the old speed limit thing - set the limit 10mph below what you want people to actually do.

 

[richw]

Well if people are allowed effectively to choose to take the risk this could be applied to all sorts of things - BBQ with family in the back garden ?

Totally agree. My mum can go and teach kids and be in a school with touching 1000kids, but she can’t see her grandchildren. There is a lack of logic and consistency. We could bump into a friend in public but can’t have close family sit in our gardens with us. Our garden is more than big enough to set up a table and chairs at distance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally agree. My mum can go and teach kids and be in a school with touching 1000kids, but she can’t see her grandchildren. There is a lack of logic and consistency. We could bump into a friend in public but can’t have close family sit in our gardens with us. Our garden is more than big enough to set up a table and chairs at distance.

I think the argument against is that most people won't be disciplined enough not to go inside to use the toilet or because it's got a bit chilly or started to rain, and also that you're more likely to be sharing cutlery, crockery, chairs etc. Also enforcement is easier in public places.

That said, the Scots seem to be saying they'll allow two households to meet in any outdoor setting from their first level of loosening.

 

[woodhouse122]

There is going to be major problems in the peak time services if and when the schoolkids start going back in june.

 

[scotrail158713]

My mum can go and teach kids and be in a school with touching 1000kids, but she can’t see her grandchildren.

I get the point you’re making and agree with you. But what school has 1000 pupils in just now?

 

[PG]

I imagine the guidance (not instructions BTW) would be the same, however the caveat has always been that it is 2m "wherever possible". First can probably do it to appear to be doing something because they know for now the limited capacity won't be stretched. However if demand rose to the point where the limited capacity was over-stretched, I can see those measures being relaxed. Airlines won't have anything as extreme as First, because simply put the economics of air travel would render it massively loss making. Its why airlines have warm stored most of their fleets as they will lose less this way than flying with only 10% capacity available.

The point that springs to my mind in relation to the part of your quote that I've highlighted is that First (and lots of other bus operators) have received government money to allow them to keep running but AFAIA airlines have not; hence the difference.

 

[Bantamzen]

The point that springs to my mind in relation to the part of your quote that I've highlighted is that First (and lots of other bus operators) have received government money to allow them to keep running but AFAIA airlines have not; hence the difference.

That's one difference, but some airlines, in particular low cost ones run very tight margins & so having near to full flights isn't just a desire, it is a necessity.

 

[richw]

I get the point you’re making and agree with you. But what school has 1000 pupils in just now?

They’ve been told to prepare for all kids back mid June. They’ve currently got around 100 key worker kids attending, so she’s still around 100 a day now but can’t see her 3 grandchildren

 

[Bletchleyite]

They’ve been told to prepare for all kids back mid June. They’ve currently got around 100 key worker kids attending, so she’s still around 100 a day now but can’t see her 3 grandchildren

Them being told to plan and prepare isn't the same thing as it happening. I'd bet plenty of money that they won't.

 

[richw]

Them being told to plan and prepare isn't the same thing as it happening. I'd bet plenty of money that they won't.

Theyve been told it will happen.
likewise the headteacher at my kids school is very clear the union view in the media doesn’t reflect his staff who are all ready to welcome kids back and the school is set accordingly

 

[Bletchleyite]

Theyve been told it will happen.
likewise the headteacher at my kids school is very clear the union view in the media doesn’t reflect his staff who are all ready to welcome kids back and the school is set accordingly

Well, we shall see. I doubt there will be more than the "trial" two years back before September, unless a decision is made to dump the summer break.

 

[Enthusiast]

...but is it nonsense to continue with social distancing whilst sending full planes up into the sky ?

Yes. It's also nonsense to continue with it whilst running buses, trains, tubes and trams. The fit and healthy will have to decide whether they want to take their chances or sit indoors with no income. The government cannot protect everybody from everything and it certainly cannot protect everybody from Covid. They've tried and failed. A quarter of a million known infections (and probably many times that in reality); approaching 40,000 deaths; the economy trashed for decades to come; half the population scared stiff to go out and a government terrified to lift restrictions. Meanwhile we have schoolteachers who can look after a classroom full of children but cannot see their own grandchildren in their back garden. We have people who can employ gardeners but cannot invite friends round for a cup of tea in the same garden (unless they pay them 50p to dig up some weeds).

Meanwhile, the schools farce continues. I've just seen an item on the news where a school is being used as a food distribution depot for the needy. Huge pallets of food (McCains chips) are stacked in the playground. Meanwhile the parents, along with their children pitch up to collect their sustenance. The children play with each other, the parents queue one behind the other, little more than 2 feet apart, and then they gather for a chat. When interviewed they declare their opposition to the return to school. They didn't say whether it was because the free food handouts would cease.

The government's strategy is becoming more and more of a joke and I would laugh if it was funny.

 

[PG]

Well, we shall see. I doubt there will be more than the "trial" two years back before September, unless a decision is made to dump the summer break.

I assume you meant

...the "trial" two weeks

as two years seems excessive!

 

[NorthOxonian]

I assume you meant as two years seems excessive!

I took that phrase to mean two school years returning, not the trial lasting for two years duration!

 

[PG]

I took that phrase to mean two school years returning, not the trial lasting for two years duration!

Ah yes, makes more sense, I misinterpreted what @Bletchleyite had written.

We have people who can employ gardeners but cannot invite friends round for a cup of tea in the same garden (unless they pay them 50p to dig up some weeds).

So just shy of 4 minutes work at the minimum rate (assuming the friends are >25) followed by a somewhat longer post-work tea break.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume you meant as two years seems excessive!

I meant two year groups, sorry.

 

[PG]

I meant two year groups, sorry.

No worries, it was just as much my misinterpretation.

 

[Qwerty133]

They’ve been told to prepare for all kids back mid June. They’ve currently got around 100 key worker kids attending, so she’s still around 100 a day now but can’t see her 3 grandchildren

There is no economic or educational need to see grandparents but schooling benefits both. The key is in reducing the numbers of contacts and therefore economically beneficial contacts have to be prioritised.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No worries, it was just as much my misinterpretation.

No worries I wondered if just using the term "year" to mean "year group" was perhaps local dialect!

There is no economic or educational need to see grandparents but schooling benefits both. The key is in reducing the numbers of contacts and therefore economically beneficial contacts have to be prioritised.

Though it isn't that simple, as grandparents often (in normal times) provide childcare outside of school hours without which parents still can't return to work.

 

[Qwerty133]

No worries I wondered if just using the term "year" to mean "year group" was perhaps local dialect!



Though it isn't that simple, as grandparents often (in normal times) provide childcare outside of school hours without which parents still can't return to work.

Unfortunately, as tough as it will be for single parents, I believe out of school childcare will be one of the last things to return, and even 6 hours a day of uninterrupted working time will be significantly better than the current situation. When schools return employers need to be encouraged to provide more flexibility for parents (and public transport should be expanded to start earlier in the morning) so that one parent can work something like 6:30-14:30 and the other 09:30-17:30 where at all possible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately, as tough as it will be for single parents, I believe out of school childcare will be one of the last things to return, and even 6 hours a day of uninterrupted working time will be significantly better than the current situation. When schools return employers need to be encouraged to provide more flexibility for parents (and public transport should be expanded to start earlier in the morning) so that one parent can work something like 6:30-14:30 and the other 09:30-17:30 where at all possible.

If the grandparents aren't over 70 or otherwise vulnerable, though, this is probably best done using the "family bubble" thing rather than commercial childcare where there will be a fair bit of mixing.

 

[RogerOut]

Well I’m currently being furloughed but I know my company has introduced social distancing on buses. I think a single deck vehicle will now take up to 10/11 passengers. When the bus is at its capacity, the driver then changes the blind to display the text the bus is now full due to social distancing.
How will this work? Will the drivers job be even harder than before? The driver will have to sail past lots of people , resulting in lots of complaints.
I’d imagine bus drivers will face lots of confrontation with this and will be even more difficult when the school kids start going back.

 

[richw]

Though it isn't that simple, as grandparents often (in normal times) provide childcare outside of school hours without which parents still can't return to work.

mine do on Saturdays, another non logic, As a key worker I’m allowed to pay a child minder, But Can’t see grandparents... unless I employ them as a childminder

 

[Robertj21a]

Well I’m currently being furloughed but I know my company has introduced social distancing on buses. I think a single deck vehicle will now take up to 10/11 passengers. When the bus is at its capacity, the driver then changes the blind to display the text the bus is now full due to social distancing.
How will this work? Will the drivers job be even harder than before? The driver will have to sail past lots of people , resulting in lots of complaints.
I’d imagine bus drivers will face lots of confrontation with this and will be even more difficult when the school kids start going back.

The answer is Yes to just about all of that.

 

[LancasterRed]

They aren't First's own measures, are they? They are following published Government instructions.

Yep - same measures being mandated up here among Rotala, Stagecoach and presumably Coastal Coaches given they're government-funded and LCC services.

 

[richw]

Yep - same measures being mandated up here among Rotala, Stagecoach and presumably Coastal Coaches given they're government-funded and LCC services.

All passenger communications being used by first have the Gov and nhs logos on, and other operators seem to be using same publicity