First Bus Introduce Social Distancing

[Bletchleyite]

Ok so you've given some evidence that you don't know how local buses work. For example, before the crisis there was a local bus that ran past my house up into Baildon village 4 times a day. And sometimes I would ask my wife if she fancied a pint up there, so if one of these was due we would get ready, and turn up for the bus & go. If one wasn't due, we would get a taxi.

And how would you get that taxi? I'm betting there aren't Hackney carriages driving past your house every 2 minutes. Do you, perchance, book it?

 

[northernchris]

And how would you get that taxi? I'm betting there aren't Hackney carriages driving past your house every 2 minutes. Do you, perchance, book it?

I used to live in Keighley which isn't too far from Baildon, and the town is saturated with taxis. Just call one whenever and 5 minutes later it will be waiting outside, no pre-booking necessary

 

[Darandio]

And how would you get that taxi? I'm betting there aren't Hackney carriages driving past your house every 2 minutes. Do you, perchance, book it?

It's very much the norm up here, ring up and get a taxi within 5 minutes at the most. Very competetively priced with buses too.

 

[lastbus]

Definitely pros and cons to this. Will make it safer to travel but having zero guarantee that you'll even get on the bus in the first place. Seen a lot of very concerned people over what it'll mean for their journey especially those with frequencies lower than every 30 mins. It's something everyone really needs to get right

Double deckers are going on to more routes from Monday. Frequency will be adjusted where required.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's very much the norm up here, ring up and get a taxi within 5 minutes at the most. Very competetively priced with buses too.

And presumably you could also reserve a seat on the bus within 5 minutes of departure, provided it wasn't already full. And if it was full for pre-booking, no doubt it'd sail past you at the stop, too. At least with pre-booking you'd know and be able to call said taxi.

 

[Jayden99]

And presumably you could also reserve a seat on the bus within 5 minutes of departure, provided it wasn't already full. And if it was full for pre-booking, no doubt it'd sail past you at the stop, too. At least with pre-booking you'd know and be able to call said taxi.

I don't know, however, if bus companies such as First would necessarily have the back end set up to allow reservations on these kinds of buses. With rail they system is largely available just not used by certain TOCs or on certain trains. Finding a system, testing it, and doing the relevant staff training is a big expense especially when revenues are through the floor

 

[muz379]

I don't know, however, if bus companies such as First would necessarily have the back end set up to allow reservations on these kinds of buses. With rail they system is largely available just not used by certain TOCs or on certain trains. Finding a system, testing it, and doing the relevant staff training is a big expense especially when revenues are through the floor

Not to mention the possibility that the person living in this hypothetical rural hamlet who for some reason doesn't drive might not have access to the internet .

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Double deckers are going on to more routes from Monday. Frequency will be adjusted where required.

I get express services obviously require deckers but I really wish they’d make better use of the 65 plate E400MMCs. These buses are for city driving and the fact that they’re on the 2 and 3 right now just proves that they’d be a suitable option for such busy routes rather than always being singles. I really don’t know why First have always been so keen on singles for the 2 I really don’t get it. It’s a busy route and these buses would be perfect for it. The refurbed B9TLs could be used on the X11, X85/X87 and X3 rather than stop/start buses.

 

[al78]

The problem with social distancing on public transport is that it destroys the primary utility of public transport, the ability to transport a lot of people from one location to another, rather than everyone trying to take one car each. I can't see this being sustainable in the long term, either a vaccine is developed and COVID goes the way of the flu, or public transport is eliminated because it is too inflexible to be used.

 

[Bantamzen]

And how would you get that taxi? I'm betting there aren't Hackney carriages driving past your house every 2 minutes. Do you, perchance, book it?

I used to live in Keighley which isn't too far from Baildon, and the town is saturated with taxis. Just call one whenever and 5 minutes later it will be waiting outside, no pre-booking necessary

Is the right answer. We can literally call on the local firm and have one here in no time at all (in fact because we are generous tippers they make sure of it!).

And presumably you could also reserve a seat on the bus within 5 minutes of departure, provided it wasn't already full. And if it was full for pre-booking, no doubt it'd sail past you at the stop, too. At least with pre-booking you'd know and be able to call said taxi.

What is with your obsession with compulsory reservations? Oh that's right, you came up with the idea and are now trying to reshape the world to fit it.....

Seriously, trying to compare taxis to buses is like comparing apples to oranges. Taxis are a bespoke service, a bookable form of private transport, and one that you pay more for as a result. Buses are public transport, there as a cheaper form of turn-up-and-go transport for the masses. And therein is the problem with your idea, and why its daft to suggest it for commuter trains, and really daft for buses. Sorry but there you are....

 

[richw]

E400mmc, 33313, I have 7 seats downstairs and 12 upstairs plus 1 wheelchair as normal

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not to mention the possibility that the person living in this hypothetical rural hamlet who for some reason doesn't drive might not have access to the internet .

Is there anyone who still does not have a telephone of any form at home? Last time I heard of that was a friend in the 1990s.

 

[richw]

Not to mention the possibility that the person living in this hypothetical rural hamlet who for some reason doesn't drive might not have access to the internet .

Many of the elderly don’t have internet not a capable device, nor the ability to use a device

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is with your obsession with compulsory reservations? Oh that's right, you came up with the idea and are now trying to reshape the world to fit it.....

No, I'm using it to apply to a world which you might recall was reshaped by a nasty case of the flu.

Seriously, trying to compare taxis to buses is like comparing apples to oranges. Taxis are a bespoke service, a bookable form of private transport, and one that you pay more for as a result. Buses are public transport, there as a cheaper form of turn-up-and-go transport for the masses. And therein is the problem with your idea, and why its daft to suggest it for commuter trains, and really daft for buses. Sorry but there you are....

It would in normal circumstances be daft for a large bus (though I like the Swiss approach to being able to book a group onto public transport of all kinds). But we're in a situation where a big decker has the capacity of what a small community transport minibus has normally, and it is in my eyes the only sensible way to regulate demand, particularly as queueing in and of itself poses a risk.

You could as an alternative price people off, but first come first served via a reservations system is much fairer.

 

[Bantamzen]

It would in normal circumstances be daft for a large bus (though I like the Swiss approach to being able to book a group onto public transport of all kinds). But we're in a situation where a big decker has the capacity of what a small community transport minibus has normally, and it is in my eyes the only sensible way to regulate demand, particularly as queueing in and of itself poses a risk.

You could as an alternative price people off, but first come first served via a reservations system is much fairer.

A booking system would kill off public transport stone dead, even the distancing measures that First are introducing will likely put people off over the coming weeks will worsen the problem. Public transport is what is says it is, a transport system for the public, not some niche product that is capable of carrying around fresh air. Stick the government's "buses / trains bad" messaging (I know that's not what they said, but it is how a good many people are reading it) on top of it and I can see the network collapsing when this is all over. I know in my area despite the often horrific congestion, the bus network has been decimated over the last decade with capacity massively reduced. Northern have picked up some of the slack, but the roads prior to the crisis were a nightmare, and post-crisis are likely to be even worse.

In many areas it isn't double deckers running around carrying a handful of people, many services run infrequently using vehicles like Solos. Social distancing and pre-booking one of a couple of seats that would be available will be the end for many local, and essential services, even if used for a short period of time. The harder we make using public transport as a turn-up-and-go service, the more likely it will be to fail completely. Like a lot of so-called solutions in this crisis, the cure seems to be worse than the problem.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

But we're in a situation where a big decker has the capacity of what a small community transport minibus has normally, and it is in my eyes the only sensible way to regulate demand, particularly as queueing in and of itself poses a risk.

You could as an alternative price people off, but first come first served via a reservations system is much fairer.

No, a double decker bus still has the capacity of a double decker bus, it's just that First have decided to restrict the number of people it will allow to board.

The simple alternative is to retain full capacity but ask passengers to maintain social distancing where possible, whilst accepting it may not always be possible.

 

[PaulMc7]

Seems to be that in general the new measures by First have went down like a lead balloon going by social media. Good idea on paper but could be horrendous in execution

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems to be that in general the new measures by First have went down like a lead balloon going by social media. Good idea on paper but could be horrendous in execution

They aren't First's own measures, are they? They are following published Government instructions.

 

[PaulMc7]

They aren't First's own measures, are they? They are following published Government instructions.

First's ideas based on government guidance as far as I'm aware. Just seems a few weeks too late to me especially given as lockdown could be eased next week here in Scotland so frequency of all services will probably need to increase again anyway. Could possibly be another week with 2 sets of timetable changes

 

[Bletchleyite]

First's ideas based on government guidance as far as I'm aware. Just seems a few weeks too late to me especially given as lockdown could be eased next week here in Scotland so frequency of all services will probably need to increase again anyway. Could possibly be another week with 2 sets of timetable changes

Must admit I still find it funny that the railway (even in downstaffed form) is able to deliver these miracles when fixing serious timetable errors previously took literally years. There's a lesson there.

 

[richw]

Must admit I still find it funny that the railway (even in downstaffed form) is able to deliver these miracles when fixing serious timetable errors previously took literally years. There's a lesson there.

Most people know on advance they need a train. When they are restricted to 6 per carriage By dft and running so infrequent you may as well call the railway non running to the majority!

 

[xc170]

E400mmc, 33313, I have 7 seats downstairs and 12 upstairs plus 1 wheelchair as normal

Ridiculous.

 

[Butts]

They aren't First's own measures, are they? They are following published Government instructions.

What are The Government instructions for Aircraft then ?

It seems the height of hypocrisy to have Social Distancing on a Bus not on an Aeroplane.

Surely it should be all or nothing or what's the point - the credibility of Social Distancing is being seriously impinged by all these ludicrous inconsistencies. ( Always assuming it had any)

 

[Bantamzen]

What are The Government instructions for Aircraft then ?

It seems the height of hypocrisy to have Social Distancing on a Bus not on an Aeroplane.

Surely it should be all or nothing or what's the point - the credibility of Social Distancing is being seriously impinged by all these ludicrous inconsistencies. ( Always assuming it had any)

I imagine the guidance (not instructions BTW) would be the same, however the caveat has always been that it is 2m "wherever possible". First can probably do it to appear to be doing something because they know for now the limited capacity won't be stretched. However if demand rose to the point where the limited capacity was over-stretched, I can see those measures being relaxed. Airlines won't have anything as extreme as First, because simply put the economics of air travel would render it massively loss making. Its why airlines have warm stored most of their fleets as they will lose less this way than flying with only 10% capacity available.

 

[Butts]

I imagine the guidance (not instructions BTW) would be the same, however the caveat has always been that it is 2m "wherever possible". First can probably do it to appear to be doing something because they know for now the limited capacity won't be stretched. However if demand rose to the point where the limited capacity was over-stretched, I can see those measures being relaxed. Airlines won't have anything as extreme as First, because simply put the economics of air travel would render it massively loss making. Its why airlines have warm stored most of their fleets as they will lose less this way than flying with only 10% capacity available.

Surely if packing people inches apart on any form of transport posed a real threat to health it would not be permitted ?

 

[Bantamzen]

Surely if packing people inches apart on any form of transport posed a real threat to health it would not be permitted ?

At some point its going to have to be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if packing people inches apart on any form of transport posed a real threat to health it would not be permitted ?

It's all relative as the economy must be considered as well.

 

[Butts]

It's all relative as the economy must be considered as well.

So people are expendable but the economy is not - why bother with social distancing at all ?

Is it all a big con social distancing ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So people are expendable but the economy is not - why bother with social distancing at all ?

Because, as I said, it's all relative. Like it or not a life has a value, it's used in calculating whether road safety projects should be funded.

Killing the economy will kill many, many people (suicides, starvation etc).

 

[NorthOxonian]

So people are expendable but the economy is not - why bother with social distancing at all ?

The economy is people. There isn't a tradeoff - if we can't return to some sort of normality and the economy massively contracts, how are we going to pay for the NHS? Or any other service?