First Capital Connect 321s

[trolleyman]

Which services do these trains work now? Tried searching online and on here and can't find anything.

Any help appreciated

 

[Manchester77]

The units are working on the Great Northern services (London Kings Cross to Peterborough and London Kings Cross to Cambridge)

according to wiki

 

[MCR247]

I think he may have been looking for a more specific answer

 

[Alistair G.]

When did FCC get 321's?. I only knew of LM and NEX, oh and the odd one in the Leeds area

 

[Manchester77]

When LM got their 350s most cascaded to Anglia and FCC

 

[Tom C]

There are 12 321 diagrams, 8 are based on Peterborough, 2 starting at Letchworth and 2 off Hornsey. Only one 321 stays out all day, the rest are used on peak services only. There is no work for 321's at weekends apart from one "Q" move from Hornsey to Peterborough as a balancing move.

321's cannot work north of Ely (they have visited Ely before) and whilst one was used last Friday on a Letchworth to Kings Cross via Hertford North it is very, very rare and was only done at all because it went in place of a 317 which was caught up in the fatality at Hornsey.

If anything, the 321's are rather under used, the 317's which have more all day and weekend work are still the main stock apart from 365's, mainly because they are the most versatile of all the stock on FCC.

 

[Fred26]

There are 12 321 diagrams, 8 are based on Peterborough, 2 starting at Letchworth and 2 off Hornsey. Only one 321 stays out all day, the rest are used on peak services only. There is no work for 321's at weekends apart from one "Q" move from Hornsey to Peterborough as a balancing move.

321's cannot work north of Ely (they have visited Ely before) and whilst one was used last Friday on a Letchworth to Kings Cross via Hertford North it is very, very rare and was only done at all because it went in place of a 317 which was caught up in the fatality at Hornsey.

If anything, the 321's are rather under used, the 317's which have more all day and weekend work are still the main stock apart from 365's, mainly because they are the most versatile of all the stock on FCC.

What's a 'Q' move?

Why can't 321s run north of Ely?

 

[Lrd]

What's a 'Q' move?

Runs as requested. The Q is part of the headcode, like 5Q11 or something, 5 being ECS.

 

[westcoaster]

Q trips at FCC are fleet test rips and balancing moves actually Lewis they don't run with Q in the headcode.

 

[Lrd]

Q trips at FCC are fleet test rips and balancing moves actually Lewis they don't run with Q in the headcode.

Is this the same everywhere or just FCC?

 

[Aictos]

Q trips at FCC are fleet test rips and balancing moves actually Lewis they don't run with Q in the headcode.

There's a working that runs as required from Hornsey TSC to Hertford North in the early hours, it has a B as it terminates at Hertford and a E as its going back to the depot.

The only Q services I've seen tend to be mostly Network Rail services.

 

[edwin_m]

Q path comes from the note shown against these trains in the working timetable and they can have any headcode (I don't know if FCC chooses Q headcodes for them). Not surprisingly they are unusual for passenger or ECS workings but many freight trains are shown in the WTT as Q paths.

Not to be confused with a Q-train which used to run through vandal-prone areas with police on board and supported by patrol cars ready to nab anyone causing trouble.

 

[Lrd]

Q path comes from the note shown against these trains in the working timetable and they can have any headcode (I don't know if FCC chooses Q headcodes for them). Not surprisingly they are unusual for passenger or ECS workings but many freight trains are shown in the WTT as Q paths.

Not to be confused with a Q-train which used to run through vandal-prone areas with police on board and supported by patrol cars ready to nab anyone causing trouble.

Thanks for this, I think i've been conjoining headcodes and paths together and gut a bit muddled up.

 

[Tom C]

There's a working that runs as required from Hornsey TSC to Hertford North in the early hours, it has a B as it terminates at Hertford and a E as its going back to the depot.

The only Q services I've seen tend to be mostly Network Rail services.

The run you are referring to is a "trials" run, where a unit which has been under exam or repair is sent out to "trial" before reentering traffic.

On the Great Northern, there are 4 sets of trials runs in the morning and 3 overnight.

There are the option of Welwyn Yard, Hertford North CS, Letchworth CS and Moorgate (Day only). They all have a defined path and driver and the path has to be "called up" on TRUST after Hornsey select which trip they want. Welwyn or Hertford would usually be used on 313's, Letchworth for a speed run and Moorgate for DC.

Why can't 321s run north of Ely?

They are not route cleared.

Q path comes from the note shown against these trains in the working timetable and they can have any headcode (I don't know if FCC chooses Q headcodes for them). Not surprisingly they are unusual for passenger or ECS workings but many freight trains are shown in the WTT as Q paths

All the trials trips have Q paths and also the balancing move for the 321's is a Q move, in this case 5P99 is the headcode, it generally always does to balance the Nene for Monday morning.

 

[Aictos]

Usually it would be 313s on a as required trial trip to Hertford and back BUT I have known a 365 to be used once

 

[jopsuk]

Presumably the only reason 321s haven't been cleared north of Ely is that there's never been any reason to- 317s go to Kings Lynn

 

[Searle]

Presumably the only reason 321s haven't been cleared north of Ely is that there's never been any reason to- 317s go to Kings Lynn

pretty certain the 365's only go to Kings Lynn!

 

[Tom C]

pretty certain the 365's only go to Kings Lynn!

You are right in that all FCC services to and from Kings Lynn are diagrammed as 365's however 317's do very rarely hit Kings Lynn. Its rather difficult to do because most trains from Lynn attach to another train at Cambridge which would be diagrammed for a 365 so unless you have two 317's which is rare or a single diagram which is just as rare its very difficult but it has been done.

Greater Anglia run a 317 to Lynn which berths for the first departure to Liverpool Street every weekday.

Presumably the only reason 321s haven't been cleared north of Ely is that there's never been any reason to- 317s go to Kings Lynn

As its very rare to even get a 317 to Lynn, the chances of needing a 321,which only visit Cambridge a couple of times a day, would be even rarer.

 

[jopsuk]

pretty certain the 365's only go to Kings Lynn!

On FCC services, yes. Point is that 317s are cleared to Kings Lynn, and they're really rather similar to 321s. GA run 317s (and 379s) to Kings Lynn for peak services.

 

[317 forever]

I am likely to travel from Finsbury Park to St Neots on Thursday 29th August during the afternoon, possibly as the rush hour arrives. I am willing to change at Stevenage if necessary. It's just that I most hope to ride a class 317, with a class 321 quite interesting too.

As far as any of you can tell, are these units likely to be out much then?

 

[jon0844]

Some of the xx27 and xx57 services from KGX to WGC in the late afternoon will be 321s. Check the timetable, as the later ones are just 6 cars and will be 313s.

Best of all, these services have no first class so you can not only get your 321 but also sit in first class!

From WGC you can probably wait for a very little time to get a 317 turn up.

 

[philjo]

I am likely to travel from Finsbury Park to St Neots on Thursday 29th August during the afternoon, possibly as the rush hour arrives. I am willing to change at Stevenage if necessary. It's just that I most hope to ride a class 317, with a class 321 quite interesting too.

As far as any of you can tell, are these units likely to be out much then?

The 16:32 kx-Cambridge train is 8 coach 317 calling Finsbury park, potters bar etc

I think the 16:22 kx to Huntingdon service is 321 - this calls at finsbury park.

 

[GNERman]

When i've caught 2P63 1016 PBO-KGX over the last three weeks it's always been a pair of 321's.

 

[HST Power]

I am likely to travel from Finsbury Park to St Neots on Thursday 29th August during the afternoon, possibly as the rush hour arrives. I am willing to change at Stevenage if necessary. It's just that I most hope to ride a class 317, with a class 321 quite interesting too.

As far as any of you can tell, are these units likely to be out much then?

Over the course of the last week, the 1617 from Kings Cross to Royston has been worked by a 317 every weekday. I haven't used it, because I seem to be alone in loathing 317s, but if you can make your back way to Kings Cross then you could always use this one. It will run non-stop to Stevenage, then you can pick up a connection to St Neots.

The 321s and 365s are fine by me. I'd stick to them every day of the week!

 

[317 forever]

Thank you for your ideas about timings. I may try to reach Finsbury Park early enough to ride a 317 to Stevenage and get there in time to connect with the 321 on the 1622 King's Cross - Huntingdon train.

I am in fact travelling from Chelmsford to Stansted Airport, on the X30 hopefully at 1400, with a view to having coffee there then catch a 379 to Tottenham Hale and Victoria Line to Finsbury Park. The timings may be a bit too ambitious though!

 

[philjo]

Bear in mind the staircases connecting the FCC platforms with the victoria Line at Finsbury Park will be closed next week until March. You now have to use the other stairs & leave the station to use the other entrance to access the FCC platforms so allow extra time for this

 

[87015]

Thes are the FCC departures from Kings X to beyond Hitchin for yesterday. I haven't seen if any were vice, times are from KX so you'll have to look at stopping patterns to work out a move.

***** 15:06 2C19 KINGS X   15:06 365504      
***** 15:15 1C17 KINGS X   15:15 365539      
***** 15:23 1P19 KINGS X   15:23 365515 365524
***** 15:36 2P20 KINGS X   15:36 321406      
***** 15:44 1T18 KINGS X   15:44 365503 365508
***** 15:53 1C41 KINGS X   15:53 365521      
***** 16:06 2C21 KINGS X   16:06 365512      
***** 16:14 1C19 KINGS X   16:14 365528 365530
***** 16:17 1R01 KINGS X   16:17 317343 317347
***** 16:22 1P21 KINGS X   16:22 321405 321407
***** 16:32 2C22 KINGS X   16:32 317341 317346
***** 16:40 1P00 KINGS X   16:40 365519 365509
***** 16:44 1T20 KINGS X   16:44 365537 365505
***** 16:50 1P22 KINGS X   16:50 321408 321410
***** 16:54 2C23 KINGS X   16:54 317340      
***** 17:10 1P91 KINGS X   17:10 365534 365533
***** 17:14 1P23 KINGS X   17:14 365518 365501        
***** 17:14 1T21 KINGS X   17:14 365511 365532        
***** 17:22 2C24 KINGS X   17:22 321420 321404        
***** 17:23 1R02 KINGS X   17:23 365538 365502        
***** 17:40 1P92 KINGS X   17:40 365541 365506 365514 
***** 17:44 1P24 KINGS X   17:44 365540 365527 365536 
***** 17:44 1T22 KINGS X   17:44 365531 365539 365529 
***** 17:52 2C25 KINGS X   17:52 317345 317342        
***** 17:53 1R03 KINGS X   17:53 365504 365507

 

[317 forever]

Thank you for that list 87015. This suggests that many off-peak servicea are 365 with 321s and some 317s being peak-hour only. I shall use this list ready for next Thursday.

 

[317666]

After having a look through last year's diagrams, they say that the 15:36 off Kings Cross is booked for a 321, the 16:32 a pair of 317s, the 16:54 (Cambridge service not Welwyn terminator) a 317, the 17:22 a pair of 321s, and the 17:52 a pair of 317s.

These are from last year's diagrams, but I don't think a lot has changed since they were published, as I still use them to avoid having to put up with 365s with a fair amount of success! They also seem to correspond with what 87015 posted above.

 

[WestCountry]

The lack of combined 317/321 workings would suggest that the two classes can't work together, but why?

After all, they're the same basic design with a few improvements, and the 317s were supposedly compatible with the 210s which, being DEMUs, must surely have differed far more from a 317 than a 321 does. :?

Can they work together out of service (or even in service?).