First Class Fare Calculation

[D854_Tiger]

Back in the day, turn up and go, first class fares were calculated at 50% more than the equivalent standard (or second) class fare.

I know a lot of that has now gone out of the window but not so much for peak time full fares.

Also, back in the day, most trains had first and standard class accommodation, even most regional DMUs had a first class.

This is not the case nowadays so there are many journeys for which booking a first class ticket would involve a large proportion of standard class travel, for example, Welshpool to London.

My question is, if booking such a journey is the missing availability of first class travel built into the fare calculation, by way of compensation, or is there still some kind of historical overhang that basically results in you being ripped off.

Split ticketing would appear to be the best solution if not.

 

[Merseysider]

My question is, if booking such a journey is the missing availability of first class travel built into the fare calculation, by way of compensation, or is there still some kind of historical overhang that basically results in you being ripped off.

Plenty of variation across the network.

Take Newcastle to York. Cheapest 1st class return is £58.50 if you want TPE, or £68.50 if you want LNER.

Carlisle to York is suddenly £177 for a 1st class return despite there being no 1st between CAR and NCL and this section only costing ~£20 for a standard return.

Even if one wanted an Anytime Any Permitted NCL-YRK 1st class return at £136, it’s still cheaper to split.

 

[Watershed]

In short, no, point to point first class fares generally don't take any account of the fact that first class is usually only available (or worthwhile) on the "intercity" portion of any journey. Generally they are just a multiple of the standard class fare, typically between 1.5× and 2.5×. So when travelling first it can be particularly worthwhile splitting.

There are also very few first class Day Returns, often not being defined even where there are equivalent standard class Day Returns. This again increases the saving from splitting when making a daytrip.

An extreme example is travelling on the 09:27 Manchester to Birmingham XC service, returning the same day. The first class walk-up fare you'd be quoted on most booking engines and at the ticket machine/office would be a ludicrous £238.10. A series of splits reduces that to £102.40 - still very expensive but closer to a reasonable fare.

 

[HORNIMANS]

So would I be better off now buying a standard class ALR instead of a first class one,
and buying an excess ticket for FC journey.
if getting an excess to FC does it have to be bought at ticket office or on train.

 

[Watershed]

So would I be better off now buying a standard class ALR instead of a first class one,
and buying an excess ticket for FC journey.
if getting an excess to FC does it have to be bought at ticket office or on train.

The prices of rangers and rovers generally do allow for the fact that not all trains have first class, hence they tend to use a lower multiple.

Whether a first class ALR is worthwhile depends on how much you would be using first class on IC operators. But bear in mind that there are some notable morning restrictions on certain operators (thanks, Adonis...).

An excess should cost you the difference between the relevant standard and first class single for the journey you're making on that particular train/day. You would have to buy it before boarding (or before entering first class), where ticketing facilities exist. The only exception would be where operators have Weekend First or similar schemes in operation, where onboard upgrades are explicitly permitted.

 

[SickyNicky]

Back in the day, turn up and go, first class fares were calculated at 50% more than the equivalent standard (or second) class fare.

I know a lot of that has now gone out of the window but not so much for peak time full fares.

We came across an interesting example of a particularly high ratio of Std to 1st the other day, even on "peak time full fares".

Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham, Anytime Day Return is £12.70. Want to go in first class for the short journey (in a 2 coach class 170)? That'll be £71.50, please.

My point here is that first class isn't technically missing here, but it's a tiny compartment and never ticket checked during this segment. All for a multiplier of 563%. Bargain!

So would I be better off now buying a standard class ALR instead of a first class one,
and buying an excess ticket for FC journey.

As above, don't assume the excess will be reasonable. Or that ticket offices will even be prepared to sell it to you, or will be able to select the "correct" excess for the journey.

I'd go with the first class ALR, for sure. Much less hassle. But my ALR days were back when it had no time restrictions. The product is not nearly so tempting nowadays.

 

[Birmingham]

We came across an interesting example of a particularly high ratio of Std to 1st the other day, even on "peak time full fares".

Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham, Anytime Day Return is £12.70. Want to go in first class for the short journey (in a 2 coach class 170)? That'll be £71.50, please.

My point here is that first class isn't technically missing here, but it's a tiny compartment and never ticket checked during this segment. All for a multiplier of 563%. Bargain!

Ha, I remember when it came up on here that there wasn’t a first class fare for that journey. That’s how XC responded

 

[voyagerdude220]

We came across an interesting example of a particularly high ratio of Std to 1st the other day, even on "peak time full fares".

Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham, Anytime Day Return is £12.70. Want to go in first class for the short journey (in a 2 coach class 170)? That'll be £71.50, please.

My point here is that first class isn't technically missing here, but it's a tiny compartment and never ticket checked during this segment. All for a multiplier of 563%. Bargain!

Or buy a First Class Return between Worcestershire Parkway and Tamworth.

(not that I'd pay extra for First Class on a Cross Country 170)