First Class on Oyster Card?

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tango602

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cheers, very useful information even though i am only up there now and then, may have to visit some FCC areas now :)
 

34D

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cheers, very useful information even though i am only up there now and then, may have to visit some FCC areas now :)
Worth it for their 317/321. First on 365s is more uncomfortable than standard though. That said, the queen has used it!
 

MikeWh

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Just in case there is any doubt, Oyster is entirely a standard class facility. There is no way to tell what seats have been sat in on a train. On it's own you are not entitled to sit in first class.

The methods mentioned in this thread refer to the times that anyone with a standard class ticket is allowed to sit in first class.
 

VTPreston_Tez

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I can see that with the system of Oyster, it's implicit that only standard class can be allowed, straying off a bit now but making a point, I'd like to see first class upgrades, either by a second touch-in system that's like, blue/green/red or something clearly different, but that may be confusing, and touch-ins in the first class compartment, err...
Listen to everyone else's comments, in other words :)
 

MidnightFlyer

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either by a second touch-in system that's like, blue/green/red or something clearly different,
Aye, do that at stations and see how many are truthful at the end! Unless you get checked on train how many people would honestly touch in for first class if no-one knows they've been in it?

VTPreston_Tez said:
Listen to everyone else's comments, in other words :)
Why comment then?
 

VTPreston_Tez

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Aye, do that at stations and see how many are truthful at the end! Unless you get checked on train how many people would honestly touch in for first class if no-one knows they've been in it?
And that's one of the faults of the system! (That's why they invented penalty fares, anyway)

Why comment then?
I should have put tl;dr. :P
 

MidnightFlyer

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And that's one of the faults of the system! (That's why they invented penalty fares, anyway)
I disagree with that, penalty fares were introduced chiefly to deter ticketless travel (or other forms of fare evasion), not to ensure people were travelling in the correct class!
 

VTPreston_Tez

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I disagree with that, penalty fares were introduced chiefly to deter ticketless travel (or other forms of fare evasion), not to ensure people were travelling in the correct class!
Well, it comes close! It is fare evasion by abusing the almost-always better facilities, if you see what I mean. (It's implicit)
 

ainsworth74

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I disagree with that, penalty fares were introduced chiefly to deter ticketless travel (or other forms of fare evasion), not to ensure people were travelling in the correct class!
From NRE:

Penalty Fares can be issued if a passenger:

  • travels without a valid ticket
  • is unable to produce an appropriate railcard on a discounted ticket
  • travels in first class accommodation with a standard ticket
  • is aged 16 or over, travelling on a child rate ticket
  • travels beyond the destination on their ticket
Also it should be noted that NXEA used to make it clear that penalty fares were not for people who were attempting to evade a fare and they should be dealt with through existing systems.
 

34D

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I'll keep that in mind, any recommended visits?
Thameslink, depends on the day.

On GN, there are some slow peak trains into and out of KX that are shown in their timetable as 4 or 8 cars but without the 1st class logo. This suggests booked 317/321 but is first choice to be 313 vice just in case (not advertising first class means less people to compensate).
 

tango602

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Thameslink, depends on the day.

On GN, there are some slow peak trains into and out of KX that are shown in their timetable as 4 or 8 cars but without the 1st class logo. This suggests booked 317/321 but is first choice to be 313 vice just in case (not advertising first class means less people to compensate).
Thanks 34D, I'll keep this in mind.
 

cjp

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Just in case there is any doubt, Oyster is entirely a standard class facility. There is no way to tell what seats have been sat in on a train. On it's own you are not entitled to sit in first class.

The methods mentioned in this thread refer to the times that anyone with a standard class ticket is allowed to sit in first class.
I have had a quick look both at your site and tfl's but I have not seen anything that that says Oyster is only for standard class. I know it makes sense but can you point me at anything?
I also looked here http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedompass/howto/conditions.htm.

From a practical point of view, especially with PAYG It makes sense to be standard only but where does it say this?

Or can I have few months in 1st until they sort this out:)?
 

RJ

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I have had a quick look both at your site and tfl's but I have not seen anything that that says Oyster is only for standard class. I know it makes sense but can you point me at anything?
I also looked here http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedompass/howto/conditions.htm.

From a practical point of view, especially with PAYG It makes sense to be standard only but where does it say this?

Or can I have few months in 1st until they sort this out:)?
Have you looked at the Conditions of Carriage and Oyster Conditions of Use?

 

455driver

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But missed any reference to not for 1st Class
Does it say you CAN use First Class?

To use First Class you must be in possession of a First Class ticket, is an oyster card a First Class ticket?

Does it say in the NRCoC that you are not allowed to sit on the drivers lap, or does the mere fact it is not mentioned mean that it is allowed?

Does it say in the NRCoC that I am not allowed to belt you round the back of the head with a short circuit bar, does the fact that it is not mentioned mean that I can?
 

Urban Gateline

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And the most crucial fact that First Class is a premium product and Oyster card is only a "ticket" for standard class travel.

An interesting question is whether you could use an Oyster card in combination with a weekend first upgrade for example, as the TOC I work for sell these at £5 a go even for short distances within the Oyster area!
 

cjohnson

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I have had a quick look both at your site and tfl's but I have not seen anything that that says Oyster is only for standard class. I know it makes sense but can you point me at anything?
I also looked here http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/services/freedompass/howto/conditions.htm.

From a practical point of view, especially with PAYG It makes sense to be standard only but where does it say this?

Or can I have few months in 1st until they sort this out:)?
The Oyster peak/off-peak fare types (PAP/POP) shown on www.brfares.com say in the "General Conditions for this Ticket Type" section that "Class - Std", which seems pretty clear cut to me.
 

LexyBoy

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To use First Class you must be in possession of a First Class ticket, is an oyster card a First Class ticket?
An Oyster card is not a ticket, it is a medium. In principle any ticket could be loaded onto a smartcard such as Oyster (subject to the limitations of the medium) - in practice, the only tickets available to be loaded onto Oyster are standard class.

Perhaps someone familiar with the technical specifications can explain why - it may be as simple as there not being a field in the database to record class, which would be reasonable given the initial deployment on underground, bus, DLR and tram where there is only one class, and the time delays incurred by every extra piece of information transferred.

As Urban Gateline says, you need a first class ticket to use first class - as there's nothing to indicate that any ticket available on Oyster is first class (and the only Travelcards available are the same price as the standard class paper equivalent) it's safe to assume that they're not.

I would agree though that it is not made clear that first class tickets are not available on Oyster (or possibly not from TfL outlets at all).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Oyster peak/off-peak fare types (PAP/POP) shown on www.brfares.com say in the "General Conditions for this Ticket Type" section that "Class - Std", which seems pretty clear cut to me.
Indeed - though I wouldn't really class this source as somewhere the public should know about or have any knowledge of; nor does it claim to be an official source of information in any way.

The same information could of course be accessed by asking ticket office staff, the TfL helpline or National Rail Enquiries, which is what would be expected of the customer if they couldn't find the information they require online.
 

bb21

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An interesting question is whether you could use an Oyster card in combination with a weekend first upgrade for example, as the TOC I work for sell these at £5 a go even for short distances within the Oyster area!
I don't see why not. Oyster is just the medium on which a ticket can be stored. If said ticket can be upgraded in such a manner in paper form, I don't see why it cannot when held on Oyster.
 
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