First class ticket, First Class in timetable, no 1st class on train

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by dcd, 31 May 2012.

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  1. dcd

    dcd Member

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    If you have a First class ticket and the timetable says First Class but there is no 1st class on train can you make a claim?
     
  2. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Yes, you can claim the difference in the ticket price for the leg of the journey you are making. This is happening a lot a the moment on Scotrails Edinburgh - Glasgow route.
     
  3. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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  4. dcd

    dcd Member

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    Can I claim before I even travel?

    I have bought a first Class ALR for July and tried to reserve a 1st class seats at my local booking office on the Inverness to Kyle of Lochalshe and return but only got standard seats. Tried booking a 1st class return ticket online but these are not offered.

    See attached page from current timetable.
     

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  5. TrainBoy98

    TrainBoy98 Member

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    This problem happens with southern too as they have 313's on routes which are booked to have first class. also, they are booked on 1hr 30min journeys without toilets
     
  6. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    That is an interesting mistake in the NRT and even the online version shows the train as first class. What is worse is that when you get on the train it will have a declassified first class section. :roll: However in reality you have had a lucky escape, all you would get different is a cup of tea and a biscuit.

    Others with greater expertise will comment about the refund for the rover. I doubt it as you can use other trains with 1st class should you want to the same day.
     
  7. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I doubt it. How could you prove prior to the advertised time of travel that First Class accommodation will not be provided?
     
  8. island

    island Established Member

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    I don't think you'll get anything for an ALR.
     
  9. dcd

    dcd Member

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    Why a lucky escape are the biscuits that bad?
    Do you mean I could go somewhere else as Red Spotted Hanky do not offer any 1st class tickets on any train that day to Kyle of Lochalshe.


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  10. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    How would this work on, for example, a first advance ticket from Glasgow to Darlington Route: EC & Connections what fares do you use to work out the difference?
     
  11. reb0118

    reb0118 Established Member Fares Advisor

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    No first class on services north of Inverness (even though you may find 1st on the train it will be declassified). I do not think you will get any refund as Scotrail advertise no 1st on that route.

    You could always try the Royal-Scotsman for an enhanced journey opportunity?
     
  12. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I mean by lucky escape it is not worth the premium. The seats on the 158s that operate the route are exactly the same. They are not really separated from the rest of the train and you could buy a lot of tea and biscuits from the trolley with the money you save. The last time in did Perth - Inverness on a 158 (solo) there was a higher density in 1st (no spare seats) to standard (about half full) so in that case you got less space but refreshments.

    I took a look at Scotrails site, who operate the route, they don't even price first class tickets. No idea why when all the trains on that route have the 1st class section.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    In that case you would get nothing, as you got 1st class for part of your journey. Yesterday they even said, 1st class passengers may wish to wait for the next service :)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Not by scotrail, but for some reason the national rail timetable does.
     
  13. reb0118

    reb0118 Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Yes, noticed that from screen shot. Now from a passenger's point of view this is confusing to say the least. There are, in theory, many ways to resolve this but how can you refund the difference in fare between 1st & STD when there is NO difference because there is no 1st class fare?

    Who should compensate? Who has made the error? National Rail i.e. ATOC or ScotRail?

    I'd advise the pax to arrive early & bag one off the declassified 1st seats.
     
  14. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Okay that seems reasonable enough. But, a follow up if I may, the NRCoC say that:

    With specific reference to the bits I've bolded, by my reading that would suggest that if one part of the journey does not offer first class where it is supposed to you can claim compensation? Or is my reading comprehension off?
     
  15. dcd

    dcd Member

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    But I have already paid the premium as I have a 1st ALR already.


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  16. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I know, but I guess you will also use that premium for travelling to / from Scotland and maybe even other journeys such as Aberdeen - Inverness. I one respect you would be no worse off if the timetable said standard only, unless you are not going to take advantage of 1st at all.
     
  17. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    In my opinion if you have bought a 1st class ALR then you would not be entitled to a refund on the fact of :

    1. You will use it on other operators
    2. Rolling stock changes can happen at any time
    3. A majority of the UK network does not offer 1st accomadation.

    But it may be worth writing to the TOC concerned if this was to happen.

    For example : your plan involves a 1st class journey from Edinburgh - Glasgow, and it does not offer 1st only STD.

    You could submit a letter to the TOC i.e Scotrail and they may offer the difference between a Std single and 1st single.



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  18. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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    A member of this forum lists the outcome of compensation claims while using an ALR in 2009 here.
     
  19. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

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    Impressive, he got over 1/3 of his ALR back from compo claims.
     
  20. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    If the aim of the game was to get as much back as possible, then he didn't do very well :p. I should have complained to Grand Central about the abhorrent state of their FC on the 180 I had between York and London. 10:25 service I think, it was crowded, dirty (litter all over every table,) the power points weren't working, the seats were tatty and faded, there was no hot food offering due to a failure of some onboard equipment and the host was a miserable so and so who was concealing options like the fruit juice.

    Don't even get me started on East Coast and the breakfast service experience I had out of King's Cross <(
     
    Last edited: 31 May 2012
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