First class ticket - no first class

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by ARCH564, 26 Jul 2019.

  1. ARCH564

    ARCH564 Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    1 Nov 2013
    Just a bit of advice, as a treat I booked a first class ticket on 17.16 from Cardiff Central to Holyhead wanted to have the meal and see the views. Just wondered is their anything regards compensation or is that just bad luck? Not my year booked on Scotland sleeper this year only for new carriages not to ready.... Had s refund will try again next year
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Jul 2019
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Melancholia

    Melancholia Member

    Messages:
    319
    Joined:
    21 May 2016
    Location:
    Swindon, Wiltshire
    If the train you've booked a 1st class ticket for has no 1st class facilities, then you are entitled to be refunded the difference between a Standard class, and a 1st Class fare.
     
  4. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

    Messages:
    2,666
    Joined:
    5 Jun 2011
    Location:
    St. Albans
    Sounds like they either took the buffet car out or substituted your train for a 158 or a 175, neither of which have first class. So yes, you should be entitled to the difference between standard and first class back. Unlucky
     
  5. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    20,243
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Redcar
    I had this happen to me last year buffet was missing from the formation due to a fault. They refunded my 1st class supplement without quibble.
     
  6. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Established Member

    Messages:
    4,184
    Joined:
    12 Jun 2013
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Interesting - did they consider first class as pointless without a buffet - since when has the buffet been sold as a first class-only benefit?

    Here on the North Downs line we are well used to first class being advertised and not provided (and vice versa!) owing to GWR's shambolic stock rostering.
     
  7. matt

    matt Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    6,379
    Joined:
    30 Jun 2005
    Location:
    Rugby
    The only first class seating is in the buffet coach on the Cardiff to Holyhead service
     
  8. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    20,243
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Redcar
    Well it's a first class buffet so with no buffet there is no first class at all let alone catering!!!
     
  9. TheManOnThe172

    TheManOnThe172 Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    1 Aug 2014
    How would the refund be calculated for a 1st Advance ticket? The compensation due would be the difference between the price paid and the cheapest 2nd Advance available at the time of booking, but I doubt that there is any way of identifying that later. And the passenger may have chosen train A because the 1st Advance was particularly cheap on that service, even though the 2nd Advance was considerably more than on Train B which would have suited them equally well.
     
  10. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    20,243
    Joined:
    16 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Redcar
    As APs consist of tiers they just compare to a standard AP in the same tier as the 1st AP and pay the difference. I believe LNER training materials have been posted on the Forum previously with a table that staff use to compare the tiers and work out which is which. I believe that that is a relatively common approach.
     
  11. EastCoastway

    EastCoastway Member

    Messages:
    64
    Joined:
    6 Mar 2019
    Each Advance ticket has a tier code and an equivalent code for the first and standard. So you'd get the difference between those.
     
  12. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    4,350
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    Birmingham
    The Conditions of Travel actually refer to the difference between the price paid and "the cheapest valid standard class walk-up fare available".

    That said, CrossCountry and others like LNER do refund based on the Advance tiers.
     
  13. EastCoastway

    EastCoastway Member

    Messages:
    64
    Joined:
    6 Mar 2019
    TOC's are generally fairer yes and give you the difference on the advance ticket difference because let's face it. If you didn't buy a 1st Class ticket then you probably would have purchased a standard class ticket at the same time and in all probability* would have purchased a standard class fare of the same tier.

    *I am aware that the 1st and Std fares are different and the Std fare may have sold out before the first class fare did etc etc but it's just a way of treating what is an unfortunate event and managing expectations accordingly.
     
  14. hermit

    hermit Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2019
    How is the refund calculated if first class is unavailable for only part of the journey? This applied to me this week, when I had a First Class Advance Single from Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour (bought because it was cheaper than available Second Class). However, the train was terminated at Chichester because of the hot weather timetable change, and the journey was completed on a train with no First. ( I actually made the change at Barnham, not Chichester, as advised by the onboard staff).
     
  15. Merseysider

    Merseysider Established Member Fares Advisor

    Messages:
    4,350
    Joined:
    22 Jan 2014
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Customer service would probably consider a goodwill gesture in the region of £5-£10 rather than an exact amount for distance travelled/etc.
     
  16. hermit

    hermit Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2019
    Thanks. That would be a result, since the ticket only cost £11.20 in the first place. Mind you, the substitute train was a horrible and crowded Class 313 (no loo), so it would in my view be well justified.
     
  17. hermit

    hermit Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2019
    I now know the answer to my question: I received the normal delay repay payment, with no uplift to compensate for the lack of First Class for part of the journey. No goodwill gesture, which does not surprise me!
     
  18. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

    Messages:
    460
    Joined:
    12 Apr 2019
    But that MAY have been because they failed to bother to read properly the basis for your claim was not (just) delay - but failure to provide First Class - so I'd complain again if you feel the time spent doing that is worth while. Unless they specifically told you that they had considered your claim ref 1st class and were not honoring it for whatever reason.

    Treating all complains as if they are delay / repay claims seems to be a bit of a bad habit of TOCs these days....
     
  19. hermit

    hermit Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2019

    Thanks, I suspect you are right that they didn’t read it properly. If I can find time I’ll have another go, though without any hope of getting more than a very small sum.
     

Share This Page