First Greater Glasgow

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by KGGXXXY, 14 May 2018.

  1. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    At no point has OTW said First will transfer in 400 vehicles, he said first could retro fit or move in 400 vehicles. There's a very clear difference.

    For example: First may retro fit 300 buses that are already in the fleet, and then transfer in an additional 100 in order to get to the 400 buses required (again it's just a random example).
     
  2. Colin M

    Colin M Member

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    Note the word IMPLIES.

    To move a vehicle from one operation to another is called a transfer....
     
  3. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    Indeed, but OTW's post was quite clearly not implying that First would move 400 buses in, but that they would transfer or retro fit 400 buses. As has been explained countless times this does not mean First will transfer 400 buses in, nor does it mean they will retro fit 400 buses in the current fleet. What it means is they'll do a bit of both in order to meet the target.

    I don't know how that's so hard for only you to understand.
     
    Last edited: 11 May 2019
  4. Colin M

    Colin M Member

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    Fair enough, I get you now. I clearly misunderstood his post.
     
  5. Gingerbus1991

    Gingerbus1991 Member

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    It appears that even the scottish parliament this week are not happy with First Glasgow despite all there new purchases, given that they have not bid to use 2018/19 funding for retrofits, why not though? Is 40% of the total retrofit cost per fit which is likely what first would be offered given the company size.

    Even more odd is the fact that nearly £8m was allocated to help bus firms retrofit there vehicles yet only £1,06m has been awarded to firms, including lothian, west coast motor, stagecoach western & xPlore DD.

    The BEAR phase 2 allowed operators to also ask for retrofits not just for exhausts but eFan systems and other applications designed to improve reliability and fuel consumption?

    Its clearly became a state where First feels its unfair at not gaining 100% funding on every application yet it gains 100% funding in england(so jarvis has said online), personally doing the maths, if first had bid for funding for roughly 160 of there enviro 300’s to start with it would cost approx £15000 per vehicle for a retrofit with baumot, eminox or even HJS, asking for 40% funding would mean bidding for roughly £6000 per vehicle, meaning First would have to fund roughly £9000 per vehicle for a new exhaust system, that £9000 cost is where first are definitely stalling on retrofits by the looks of it, £9000 x 160 vehicles is just over £1.4m in fitment cost off of Firsts own back.

    There is of course long term maintenance costs for such systems such as DPF cleaning and AdBlue consumption potentially being a-little higher that before, but surely not being compliant means LEZ charges would soon out-way “not” retrofitting vehicles never mind the political backlash that that first would avoid if it had been retrofitting much earlier than not doing it as of yet.

    On the grand scheme of them spending an apparent £100m on there new fleet, £1.4m is a relatively small cost to keep there vehicles relevant.
     
    Last edited: 11 May 2019
  6. Gingerbus1991

    Gingerbus1991 Member

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    Just imagine the government decided on an LEZ system across the country in not just aberdeen or glasgow but stirling and falkirk also lol, first would keich themselfs!
     
  7. overthewater

    overthewater Established Member

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    There never would because the there could never afford the tender cost in new school contracts...
     
  8. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    The whole industry would be in trouble - cue lots of services being cut “across the country“.
     
  9. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    I should also note that said systems also drain slightly more fuel while putting more stress on the engine.

    Currently ACC are looking at pedestrianising Union Street in Aberdeen while potentially having a LEZ zone on the lower 2/3rds of Market Street. A LEZ in all of Aberdeen City Centre probably wouldn't be that effective and could draw more negatives than positives, so going after particular hot spots like Market Street is a better option. If a LEZ zone was to come in for Market Street it would only affect First's 3, 12 and 20 so not that big of an issue. Stagecoach would be the ones bigger hit given that pretty much all their routes use the lower half of Market Street to get in to the bus station.

    Regardless within Scotland i can't see LEZ zones being that wide spread, Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow are probably the only cities.
     
  10. Gingerbus1991

    Gingerbus1991 Member

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    Yeah I certainly only ment it as a pun.

    When if comes to these reliability issues after fitment of such systems each individual engine should still be well withing the engine blocks, cylinders, piston rings, valves and other component tolerances.

    The D9B, D7E, D7C and ISB 6.7 & 4.5 engines that see service in most buses usually are tuned to mid level spec, for instance Cummins now has there 6.7 engine available upto 300hp now, whilst most buses see the use of the 250hp version, generally speaking the increases are made with ECU optimization & program development not usually different internal components being changed as its cheaper to change an electronic programming than it is to produce multiple components for different power states of tune.

    Back pressure caused on engines through the use of retrofits should be minimal, this is backed-up by exhaust manufacturers stating that a retrofit shouldn't effect fuel consumption either of anything more than 1%, simply though there is as off yet no evidence to support that such systems are detrimental to engines on a wide scale, as many engines fitted with this system are older it is understandable that failure rates will be naturally be higher, unfortunetly.
     
  11. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    Indeed, i just thought i'd add a bit of background (if that would be the correct term) to it anyway.

    I wouldn't be surprised if some operators consider putting Euro 6 ISBe units in buses when they're due a engine rebuild, Especially when it comes to the 4 cylinder units. I think it's too early to know if these systems will cause advanced wear to the engines in the long term, however it has been mentioned that some of the D7E B7RLE's that have been refitted are now using more fuel. While this may or may not be only by 1%, 1% is still significant in the bigger picture of things.

    On that note the D9B engines are pretty unreliable as it is, so i doubt it would make any significant difference in their case. :lol:
     
  12. Gingerbus1991

    Gingerbus1991 Member

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    Cummins already have a team in place to offer such retrofits of a brand new E6 engine, with a ZF and Stop-Start Tech.
     
  13. KendalKing

    KendalKing Established Member

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    Please don't go, giving any Government ideas.

     
  14. lastbus

    lastbus Member

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    42886 now back in service on the 266 today plans must have changed.
     
  15. SarahDFIG

    SarahDFIG Member

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    Great to see it back!! thanks for the info
     
  16. duffers2324

    duffers2324 Member

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    Spotted one of the pink branded E200's out on the M3 today 67023 being the vehicle in question, i assume this is test to see how suited to the route these buses are for the M3 with the electric vehicles in service soon.
     
  17. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Established Member

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    67106 is in service with First Cymru. The blue livery is apparently the basis for a KLM promo scheme and it is for an internal service linking car parks with the terminal building at Cardiff Airport.

    Any news on the others?
     
  18. JumpinTrainz

    JumpinTrainz Member

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    Does anyone know what’s happening with the route branding? Noticed a fair number of E300s with the coloured front for the 201 but with no branding applied yet and most of them seem to be turning up on the 263 and 240. The 240 in particular has been starting to see a real mix of Streetlites (shorter and max examples), E300s and E200MMCs.

    Also do we know if anymore routes are to be branded or is that perhaps all for now until more new stock arrives for particular routes?
     
  19. Jordan Adam

    Jordan Adam Established Member

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    If i'm not mistaken there was a fault with the original branding so new branding had to be ordered, they're probably still waiting for it to arrive.
     
  20. SarahDFIG

    SarahDFIG Member

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    as Jordan said the branding had an error and had to be redone. I have been told they should be done soon.

    The 240 at least has been getting a mix due to vehicles of the road for work and tests.

    route branding no news just now possibly when more new vehicles arrive or perhaps once the 201 has been sorted we might see more older vehicles branded
     
  21. lastbus

    lastbus Member

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    267 was rumoured for branding.
     
  22. JumpinTrainz

    JumpinTrainz Member

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    Yes the 267 was definately one of the ones spoken about for branding.

    Is it just common knowledge that the 60/60A could not be branded because it shares buses with the 41 and also the 2 and 3 couldn’t be either?
     
  23. Colin M

    Colin M Member

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    If First didn't want photos of the SBL Gemini put online then perhaps parking it in a wide open yard for all to see wasn't such a good idea. Anyone could walk by the depot and take a photo from the public path and put it online. At the end of the day, it's just another bus...
     
  24. ScotRail158725

    ScotRail158725 Member

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    When is this said open day? That does look great
     
  25. lastbus

    lastbus Member

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    7th of July.
     
  26. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    Had a long streetlite on a 240 which confused me as i thought that was a Overtown route
     
  27. lastbus

    lastbus Member

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    Shared with Blantyre.
     
  28. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    I thought Blantyre only did it on sundays ??
     
  29. SarahDFIG

    SarahDFIG Member

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    240/266 shared with Blantyre due to PVR. Blantyre run them solely on Sundays as Overtown closed
     
  30. Mak1981

    Mak1981 Member

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    New service x31 union street/George street to hampden park

    Bus registration details
    • Registration number
      PM0000001/633
    • Licence Number
      PM0000001
    • Variation number
      0
    • Status
      New
    • Service number.
      X31,
    • Service type
      Normal Stopping
    • Start point
      Union Street or George Street, Glasgow
    • Finish point
      Hampden Park, Mount Florida
    • Via
    • Date received
      14 May 2019
    • Effective date
      22 Jun 2019
     

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