• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

First Greater Glasgow

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,155
Ive done the Balloch run once, back when it was a PS, I think I was the only end to end passengers.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
Yeah I've only done it twice or 3 times full length. Even from Scotstoun/Clydebank I've always been one of the only ones making that length of journey beyond Dumbarton
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Journey time doesn't really bother me despite travel sickness plus I always get either 4 week or 10 week network tickets so I'm always covered. I've been down to England a few times but not for years now

I have a 4 week city , where do you go on your network ? I love going to new places
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
I have a 4 week city , where do you go on your network ? I love going to new places

Mainly Hamilton and Motherwell because my girlfriend's family stay in East Kilbride so it's close by from theirs on a 201. Also been to Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch a lot with it plus in the summer Helensburgh and Balloch are places I tend to end up
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Mainly Hamilton and Motherwell because my girlfriend's family stay in East Kilbride so it's close by from theirs on a 201. Also been to Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch a lot with it plus in the summer Helensburgh and Balloch are places I tend to end up

I see , hardly use the 201 to Hamilton ha .
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
I was wondering if it was the Scottish GBF rather than something more area specific. In truth, if they're staying in Scotland, it isn't an issue.



So if they pulled out of places like Aberdeen and the rest of Scotland, wouldn't there be a massive write down (i.e. financial loss) on the value of those businesses in the financial statements?

Also, isn't it the case that Glasgow/Lanarkshire IS getting the investment at the expense of other areas (and not just in Scotland) as First spend what little available capital there (and Leeds) and next to nothing in the rest of the country? Jordan will doubtless be able to correct/clarify but Aberdeen sums up First Group new bus policy over the last 10-15 years so that aside from the major urban operations, it was some (but generally not enough) in 2005-8, investment largely dried up 2009-2012, refinancing allowed new vehicle investment to meet DDA 2013-6, investment dried up again. At least Aberdeen is due some Hydrogen buses soon.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head, the only time Aberdeen has seen investment in new vehicles in the last decade has been either to meet emissions requirements (Olympians in 2008) or due to the DDA/PSVAR requirements. While Aberdeen doesn't have any vehicles 2002-4 it doesn't have high numbers of 2005-9 era vehicles (around 2/3rd of the fleet), this could potentially cause issues for fleet replacement in a few years time. Especially given that 1/3rd of those vehicles are higher capacity and realistically can't be replaced by the likes of the E400MMCs Glasgow have been getting.
 

route101

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Pretty much hit the nail on the head, the only time Aberdeen has seen investment in new vehicles in the last decade has been either to meet emissions requirements (Olympians in 2008) or due to the DDA/PSVAR requirements. While Aberdeen doesn't have any vehicles 2002-4 it doesn't have high numbers of 2005-9 era vehicles (around 2/3rd of the fleet), this could potentially cause issues for fleet replacement in a few years time. Especially given that 1/3rd of those vehicles are higher capacity and realistically can't be replaced by the likes of the E400MMCs Glasgow have been getting.

Any B10bles still on the go?
 

Bus Lightyear

Member
Joined
16 Nov 2018
Messages
542
Its still a bit dodgy if you get money for one area then send the buses away to somewhere else. Livingston has seen more older buses being shipped in.
How is it dodgy? The money came from the Scottish Government's Green Bus Fund not some local council.
 

Bus Lightyear

Member
Joined
16 Nov 2018
Messages
542
The way First have operated just reeks of complacency to be honest. Even with the likes of cost price for their service in Glasgow. As someone pointed out to me on Twitter we've had 3 price increases in 18 months. Small increases but when you add them up it's a lot. A lot of areas have no other bus alternatives either so it's just First or nothing and the cost of trains coupled with poor reliability doesn't help. I was thinking of it being a "cut your losses" drop of some areas. I can see Lothian taking up the likes of Stirling/Falkirk/West Lothian If First drop it more. I don't know anything about Aberdeen and it's a place I've never been too so can't comment on there
Lothian aren't exactly firing on all cylinders going by their recent annual financial results so I would be surprised if they were be able afford any part of First. I think they're still to release the figures for their Country Buses arm which must be coming up for a year since that started running.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Lothian aren't exactly firing on all cylinders going by their recent annual financial results so I would be surprised if they were be able afford any part of First. I think they're still to release the figures for their Country Buses arm which must coming up for a year since that started running.

If i'm not mistaken they merged the figures with the country arm in with the Lothian Buses company in order to mask the losses? I'm sure someone can clarify on that though.

Back on topic, if Glasgow are getting the E400MMCs branded for the 23 then it would make sense to perhaps brand them for the 60/60A seeing as they, the 61 and the FSE 23 pretty much use the same colour.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
If i'm not mistaken they merged the figures with the country arm in with the Lothian Buses company in order to mask the losses? I'm sure someone can clarify on that though.

Back on topic, if Glasgow are getting the E400MMCs branded for the 23 then it would make sense to perhaps brand them for the 60/60A seeing as they, the 61 and the FSE 23 pretty much use the same colour.

Yeah seen that rumoured tbh. Completely forgot about it. Do the 60/60A still interwork with the 41 at Easterhouse? Small flashback in the colouring too as light blue was the 41s old colour for Overground back in the day
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
It was to benefit the people of West Lothian not Glasgow, now the area is losing its better buses, Lothian yet to match First in fleet.

Fleet movement to Glasgow was always going to happen in order to save money for the LEZ where possible. It's unfortunate for West Lothian but Glasgow clearly needs them more now
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,155
Fleet movement to Glasgow was always going to happen in order to save money for the LEZ where possible. It's unfortunate for West Lothian but Glasgow clearly needs them more now

When happens when Edinburgh get it's LEZ?
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,170
When happens when Edinburgh get it's LEZ?
first are selling operations so its likely they wont be around in edinburgh in a year or two especially with lothian copying all there routes in west lothian so first probably wont need to worry about that
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
first are selling operations so its likely they wont be around in edinburgh in a year or two especially with lothian copying all there routes in west lothian so first probably wont need to worry about that

For First tbh the best thing is probably to just pull out of some of the longer routes into Edinburgh. Cut their losses now and transfer some more stock around to save in Glasgow especially. Will people like it? Not at all but hanging on to dead wood won't help the owners either. Loss making operations will be hard enough to sell anyway so keeping the strongholds strong might be the best way forward to get higher sale prices out of them
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,170
For First tbh the best thing is probably to just pull out of some of the longer routes into Edinburgh. Cut their losses now and transfer some more stock around to save in Glasgow especially. Will people like it? Not at all but hanging on to dead wood won't help the owners either. Loss making operations will be hard enough to sell anyway so keeping the strongholds strong might be the best way forward to get higher sale prices out of them
for first they may aswell just pull out of WL all together, all their routes are covered by lothian and there wouldnt be demand for frequency increase, new routes etc.. and first are unlikely to get a good sale in WL now that Lothian are all over them as i highly doubt a company would buy into a competition like that
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
for first they may aswell just pull out of WL all together, all their routes are covered by lothian and there wouldnt be demand for frequency increase, new routes etc.. and first are unlikely to get a good sale in WL now that Lothian are all over them as i highly doubt a company would buy into a competition like that

Despite Lothian being in an interesting position I can see them being the ones that buy over First there. Hard to see it being anyone else
 

JumpinTrainz

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,654
Yeah seen that rumoured tbh. Completely forgot about it. Do the 60/60A still interwork with the 41 at Easterhouse? Small flashback in the colouring too as light blue was the 41s old colour for Overground back in the day

The 60/60A, 61 and 41 could all be doing with new stock. I do like the refurbished B9TLs on the 61 but it would be nice to see some new stock altogether on these routes as they’ve not had much in the way of new buses in years. Especially considering back in the day these routes were always first to be considered for new stock (ie the Scania’s, bendys, B10BLEs, B7Ls, B7RLEs etc).

The 60/60A and 41 perhaps needs new buses more as they seem to have everything thrown on that route these days. As discussed the blue wouldn’t have to be changed really for the route unless it’s the 2 tone blue buses that arrive. I really do hope the ex-Parkhead routes see them and that could allow more refurbished B9TLs on to other Caledonia routes, ousting more of the B7TLs.

EDIT: Just noticed on Flickr that a blue branded E400MMC from FSE was on the 60A today. Hopefully a sign of things to come!
 
Last edited:

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
The 60/60A, 61 and 41 could all be doing with new stock. I do like the refurbished B9TLs on the 61 but it would be nice to see some new stock altogether on these routes as they’ve not had much in the way of new buses in years. Especially considering back in the day these routes were always first to be considered for new stock (ie the Scania’s, bendys, B10BLEs, B7Ls, B7RLEs etc).

The 60/60A and 41 perhaps needs new buses more as they seem to have everything thrown on that route these days. As discussed the blue wouldn’t have to be changed really for the route unless it’s the 2 tone blue buses that arrive. I really do hope the ex-Parkhead routes see them and that could allow more refurbished B9TLs on to other Caledonia routes, ousting more of the B7TLs.

EDIT: Just noticed on Flickr that a blue branded E400MMC from FSE was on the 60A today. Hopefully a sign of things to come!

Hence why i mentioned it would make sense for the 23 branded E400MMCs at FSE to move to Glasgow and be branded for the 60. That aside it would be pointless getting new vehicles for the 61 for the exact reason you just said, it has the refurbished B9TLs. A decent refurbishment like on those B9TLs is pretty much as good as a brand new bus.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
The 60/60A, 61 and 41 could all be doing with new stock. I do like the refurbished B9TLs on the 61 but it would be nice to see some new stock altogether on these routes as they’ve not had much in the way of new buses in years. Especially considering back in the day these routes were always first to be considered for new stock (ie the Scania’s, bendys, B10BLEs, B7Ls, B7RLEs etc).

The 60/60A and 41 perhaps needs new buses more as they seem to have everything thrown on that route these days. As discussed the blue wouldn’t have to be changed really for the route unless it’s the 2 tone blue buses that arrive. I really do hope the ex-Parkhead routes see them and that could allow more refurbished B9TLs on to other Caledonia routes, ousting more of the B7TLs.

EDIT: Just noticed on Flickr that a blue branded E400MMC from FSE was on the 60A today. Hopefully a sign of things to come!

Yeah it was one of those I was on as a 60A today tbh so could be the very same bus. Was such a positive change from the usual 53/54 deckers that sound horrific and considering the 60/60A especially are horribly long routes too. Thought they would all have been early contenders for new buses. Maryhill is a very busy corridor and could really do with some new stock through it especially since the 8 and 90 don't touch the LEZ
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Yeah it was one of those I was on as a 60A today tbh so could be the very same bus. Was such a positive change from the usual 53/54 deckers that sound horrific and considering the 60/60A especially are horribly long routes too. Thought they would all have been early contenders for new buses. Maryhill is a very busy corridor and could really do with some new stock through it especially since the 8 and 90 don't touch the LEZ

New buses will be allocated based on LEZ compliance, competition and where the most growth is. The length of the route doesn't make that huge of a difference, especially not when you're talking about a city network.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
New buses will be allocated based on LEZ compliance, competition and where the most growth is. The length of the route doesn't make that huge of a difference, especially not when you're talking about a city network.

Yeah I agree with that but having really old buses on routes that are around 2 hours long isn't always great either. Don't think it's coincidence that any breakdown that's occurred when I've been on a bus has happened with a very old bus on a route that's minimum 1 hour 40mins. The 8 used to be my personal nightmare for it. 3/4 breakdowns occurred within a month and I don't even use the 8 massively. 90 is another that's interesting for it although there's been a bigger variety of buses on that lately
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
Yeah I agree with that but having really old buses on routes that are around 2 hours long isn't always great either. Don't think it's coincidence that any breakdown that's occurred when I've been on a bus has happened with a very old bus on a route that's minimum 1 hour 40mins. The 8 used to be my personal nightmare for it. 3/4 breakdowns occurred within a month and I don't even use the 8 massively. 90 is another that's interesting for it although there's been a bigger variety of buses on that lately

To be fair 3-4 breakdowns in a month isn't that bad, with Stagecoach here you can see that on the same route within 30 minutes... The length of the route when it's in a city still doesn't make a huge difference as the bus is still working just as hard as one on a route half as long. The route being longer isn't really any more demand on the vehicle.
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
4,029
To be fair 3-4 breakdowns in a month isn't that bad, with Stagecoach here you can see that on the same route within 30 minutes... The length of the route when it's in a city still doesn't make a huge difference as the bus is still working just as hard as one on a route half as long. The route being longer isn't really any more demand on the vehicle.

I think I used it about 5/6 times that month lol timing is impeccable tbh. Less mileage can play a part in saving the life of buses. Not got stats of how much but it's a factor sometimes
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,514
Location
Aberdeen
I think I used it about 5/6 times that month lol timing is impeccable tbh. Less mileage can play a part in saving the life of buses. Not got stats of how much but it's a factor sometimes

Yes, however over the course of a day a bus on a hour long (end to end) city route will still be doing pretty much the same mileage as a bus on a 2 hour long (end to end) city route.
 

Top