First Greater Glasgow

[Jordan Adam]

Just an observation on Glasgow’s disappearing passengers. I’ve used the 255 that gets into the bus station at 8.50 a few times recently. Best load at Broomhouse has been 8 people, on Friday it was 3. It picks up more through Tollcross, but these kind of loads are dire – something’s gone horribly wrong with this route in the last year. Not saying the 255 is going to be pulled (it does OK through the day), but First must be worried. Doesn’t help that the bus regularly runs late, but where have all the students gone – the train is much quicker but doesn’t get them near Cally, Strathclyde Uni or City College?

I caught the 9:37 from Glasgow to Hamilton last month and it was on a almost fully seated load most of the journey with standees at various points, especially once we got closer to Hamilton. The bus that got in behind it (10:41 from Uddingston) was also very busy despite being a short working. The 267s i saw were noticeably quieter.

Obviously this doesn't reflect the usage on the entire route day in day out, but those are just what i saw.

 

[PaulMc7]

Just an observation on Glasgow’s disappearing passengers. I’ve used the 255 that gets into the bus station at 8.50 a few times recently. Best load at Broomhouse has been 8 people, on Friday it was 3. It picks up more through Tollcross, but these kind of loads are dire – something’s gone horribly wrong with this route in the last year. Not saying the 255 is going to be pulled (it does OK through the day), but First must be worried. Doesn’t help that the bus regularly runs late, but where have all the students gone – the train is much quicker but doesn’t get them near Cally, Strathclyde Uni or City College?

A lot of students and workers prefer quickness over cost sadly and it's took customers away from most buses. Even for the places you've mentioned they're not that far away from Argyle St train station so it would still be quicker to get a train and walk than get the bus especially now that the 255 is every 30 mins into Glasgow. Until the councils successfully deal with congestion and subsidise bus companies properly then it's always going to be declining numbers on buses

 

[smtglasgow]

I caught the 9:37 from Glasgow to Hamilton last month and it was on a almost fully seated load most of the journey with standees at various points, especially once we got closer to Hamilton. The bus that got in behind it (10:41 from Uddingston) was also very busy despite being a short working. The 267s i saw were noticeably quieter.

Interesting. It’s an odd route, doesn’t have the steady numbers the 240 has. It goes past the end of my road so I see it even when I’m heading off to work in Edinburgh and the busiest morning journey I see is the first bus OUT of Glasgow, which is counter-intuitive, but must be folk from the east end working out in Lanarkshire. For whatever reason, the commuter journeys into Glasgow are dying a death. In the evening peak you’re back into single figures beyond Tollcross (but it might pick up again after Uddingston). As ever, the train is the reason, but what surprises me is the decline in the last couple of years since I was using it regularly.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Just an observation on Glasgow’s disappearing passengers. I’ve used the 255 that gets into the bus station at 8.50 a few times recently. Best load at Broomhouse has been 8 people, on Friday it was 3. It picks up more through Tollcross, but these kind of loads are dire – something’s gone horribly wrong with this route in the last year. Not saying the 255 is going to be pulled (it does OK through the day), but First must be worried. Doesn’t help that the bus regularly runs late, but where have all the students gone – the train is much quicker but doesn’t get them near Cally, Strathclyde Uni or City College?

Strathclyde and City College are a 5 minute walk from Queen Street and High Street, it's only up the hill and round the corner in both directions. Not exactly a 30 minute walk...

 

[smtglasgow]

Strathclyde and City College are a 5 minute walk from Queen Street and High Street, it's only up the hill and round the corner in both directions. Not exactly a 30 minute walk...

...and absolutely no use for anyone travelling from Hamilton or Uddingston - the whole point of my comment!

 

[Aidan1]

Interesting. It’s an odd route, doesn’t have the steady numbers the 240 has. It goes past the end of my road so I see it even when I’m heading off to work in Edinburgh and the busiest morning journey I see is the first bus OUT of Glasgow, which is counter-intuitive, but must be folk from the east end working out in Lanarkshire. For whatever reason, the commuter journeys into Glasgow are dying a death. In the evening peak you’re back into single figures beyond Tollcross (but it might pick up again after Uddingston). As ever, the train is the reason, but what surprises me is the decline in the last couple of years since I was using it regularly.

The first 240 out of town is just as busy as the first 240 heading in which is a seated load usually, the first 255 out of BBS will more than likely get a load of lightbody employees travelling from the city and the parkhead region.

 

[SarahDFIG]

Don't expect all routes in the LEZ to get brand new vehicles as it's not going to happen. The E300s are more robust than the mmcs and my opinion a better bus all in. There is defo E300s getting converted to E6. The E300s on the 1 are the perfect vehicle and only need an interior refurb. Don't need to buy new vehicles just for comfy seats and usbs etc. all this can be done via refurbishment which is possibly on the cards. 201 is another prime example route where again the E300s are the perfect bus but just need the seats retrimmed with USB ports added etc. The 1 could get new vehicles but my opinion I would keep the E300s on it. refurb them add a private plate and any punter would think it's a new bus just like the deckers that were refurbished. Time will tell though.

 

[PaulMc7]

Seen one of the pink spare E200 MMCs on a 7 earlier and got one on the 46. Was a surprise getting something that wasn't terrible on a 46. Also seen an X11 branded decker on a 21

 

[SarahDFIG]

There's 4 pink E200MMCs and they're the same colour as the 65, I think these where for the 65 originally and they've went with the smaller version for the 65 instead and it's left them to mill about on any route that needs them

67020/1/2/3 - will be losing the pink fronts soon from what I have been told.

 

[alangla]

...and absolutely no use for anyone travelling from Hamilton or Uddingston - the whole point of my comment!

Still not that far from Argyle Street to either of them, or to Caledonian. The buses are just glacially slow these days, even when traffic isn’t that bad, the journey is slow because of the need to stick to the more generous schedules. Combine that with the cost of an off peak return on the train vs bus plus the sparks effect on the Whifflet line & it’s a perfect storm.

 

[CM]

Strathclyde and City College are a 5 minute walk from Queen Street and High Street, it's only up the hill and round the corner in both directions. Not exactly a 30 minute walk...

Trains from Lanarkshire don't go via High Street or Queen Street though, they go via Argyle Street and Central Low level. It's hardly a 5 minute walk from either of those stations to the Uni's. Perhaps an idea could be to divert the 255 from Parkhead to the City Centre via Dennistoun instead of following the 2, 61 and 240 down the Gallowgate.

 

[PaulMc7]

Trains from Lanarkshire don't go via High Street or Queen Street though, they go via Argyle Street and Central Low level. It's hardly a 5 minute walk from either of those stations to the Uni's. Perhaps an idea could be to divert the 255 from Parkhead to the City Centre via Dennistoun instead of following the 2, 61 and 240 down the Gallowgate.

Either that route or same as current to Glasgow Cross then up high st and along Cathedral St. A walk from Argyle St to Caley uni even for me is 10/15 mins and my mobility isn't perfect. A train then that is still a good bit quicker than the bus except the X1. With the changed Lanark trains through Uddingston it's only around 15 mins to central too whereas the 255 is over an hour in full for its route from Hamilton. The 263 and 267 also have the same problem. It's a no brainer for most people to take the train even for shorter distances

 

[lastbus]

Either that route or same as current to Glasgow Cross then up high st and along Cathedral St. A walk from Argyle St to Caley uni even for me is 10/15 mins and my mobility isn't perfect. A train then that is still a good bit quicker than the bus except the X1. With the changed Lanark trains through Uddingston it's only around 15 mins to central too whereas the 255 is over an hour in full for its route from Hamilton. The 263 and 267 also have the same problem. It's a no brainer for most people to take the train even for shorter distances

The 255 is a busy service on its current route. There is no need to change it. Not every bus is going to be full considering it shares the city to tollcross corridor with the more frequent 61 and 240.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 255 is a busy service on its current route. There is no need to change it. Not every bus is going to be full considering it shares the city to tollcross corridor with the more frequent 61 and 240.

Needs a change of some sort to tackle the route timescale and give a different option from Mount Vernon/Tollcross tbh. Having every route in an area operate in the same straight line isn't always a good thing. Just having a different option might bring more people to it.

An example of why differences work is definitely Castlemilk with the 5 and 75. Different routes from the same place into the city centre between the bottom of Castlemilk Drive and Gorbals and both are extremely busy as they offer different options

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Needs a change of some sort to tackle the route timescale and give a different option from Mount Vernon/Tollcross tbh. Having every route in an area operate in the same straight line isn't always a good thing. Just having a different option might bring more people to it.

An example of why differences work is definitely Castlemilk with the 5 and 75. Different routes from the same place into the city centre between the bottom of Castlemilk Drive and Gorbals and both are extremely busy as they offer different options

What other route option for the 255 would you suggest.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Don't expect all routes in the LEZ to get brand new vehicles as it's not going to happen. The E300s are more robust than the mmcs and my opinion a better bus all in. There is defo E300s getting converted to E6. The E300s on the 1 are the perfect vehicle and only need an interior refurb. Don't need to buy new vehicles just for comfy seats and usbs etc. all this can be done via refurbishment which is possibly on the cards. 201 is another prime example route where again the E300s are the perfect bus but just need the seats retrimmed with USB ports added etc. The 1 could get new vehicles but my opinion I would keep the E300s on it. refurb them add a private plate and any punter would think it's a new bus just like the deckers that were refurbished. Time will tell though.

The E300s have been excellent buses for the 1 routes with their 6 cylinder engines giving them a very lively performance. But as they are now 7 years old I do think it's time to upgrade the 1 with new kit and to transfer the existing E300 onto the likes of the 7 or 9.

 

[PaulMc7]

What other route option for the 255 would you suggest.

Either as it is til Glasgow Cross then High St, Cathedral St and into Buchanan Bus Station or same to the forge then the Duke St side of the forge shops, then along with the 41 to John Knox St then up onto Cathedral St and into BBS. Could even have it go up Wishart St with the 90 to give a Lanarkshire link to the royal infirmary

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Either as it is til Glasgow Cross then High St, Cathedral St and into Buchanan Bus Station or same to the forge then the Duke St side of the forge shops, then along with the 41 to John Knox St then up onto Cathedral St and into BBS. Could even have it go up Wishart St with the 90 to give a Lanarkshire link to the royal infirmary

Going back to Kelvin Central days, some of those routes like the old 255, 256 and 260 went via Duke Street. I can only assume they were all changed to go via Glasgow Cross and Gallowgate because it was felt there was more demand and at the time The Forge Retail Park has just opened.

 

[PaulMc7]

Going back to Kelvin Central days, some of those routes like the old 255, 256 and 260 went via Duke Street. I can only assume they were all changed to go via Glasgow Cross and Gallowgate because it was felt there was more demand and at the time The Forge Retail Park has just opened.

Yeah probably the reason. I doubt congestion was anywhere near as bad back then too. Most areas are a lot worse for congestion than even 10 years back. I'd hate to be a route planner for any bus company in Glasgow for that reason.

I have plenty of ideas as I'm sure any of us do for routes and options first could use but the stress involved in doing a job like that especially with the downward customer trend on buses would be a lot to deal with

 

[alangla]

Going back to Kelvin Central days, some of those routes like the old 255, 256 and 260 went via Duke Street. I can only assume they were all changed to go via Glasgow Cross and Gallowgate because it was felt there was more demand and at the time The Forge Retail Park has just opened.

More direct as well IIRC - it was bus station- North Hanover Street- George Sq North- George St then set sail for the Forge. None of the later nonsense of going down Renfield Street which easily added 10-15 mins. Same with the 13/213 - straight out to Cathedral Street then Castle St & Alexandra Parade rather than the grand tour to George Sq that happened later

 

[PaulMc7]

I think more direct services could definitely help First a bit. Having the long winded routes is okay for non city centre services but people just want quicker options everywhere.

I miss having the 42 as an option where I stay but the 1C is miles better and far more reliable than the 42 ever was. A lot of rerouting around the city centre would make a lot of services more direct with maybe less stops too.

 

[lastbus]

Either as it is til Glasgow Cross then High St, Cathedral St and into Buchanan Bus Station or same to the forge then the Duke St side of the forge shops, then along with the 41 to John Knox St then up onto Cathedral St and into BBS. Could even have it go up Wishart St with the 90 to give a Lanarkshire link to the royal infirmary

41 is the next route being branded with the ex Livingston E400s I believe.

 

[PaulMc7]

41 is the next route being branded with the ex Livingston E400s I believe.

Will be a nice fit for them. I still remember when the 41 had the light blue branding when Overground was around

 

[Bus Lightyear]

More direct as well IIRC - it was bus station- North Hanover Street- George Sq North- George St then set sail for the Forge. None of the later nonsense of going down Renfield Street which easily added 10-15 mins. Same with the 13/213 - straight out to Cathedral Street then Castle St & Alexandra Parade rather than the grand tour to George Sq that happened later

You've got me dipping into some nostalgia by mentioning the old 13. My mind could be playing tricks on me but I think it may have extended all the way out to Bathgate back in Eastern Scottish days.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77000628@N02/16178680674/in/photolist-qZu9zJ-qDDY7f

 

[CM]

You've got me dipping into some nostalgia by mentioning the old 13. My mind could be playing tricks on me but I think it may have extended all the way out to Bathgate back in Eastern Scottish days.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77000628@N02/16178680674/in/photolist-qZu9zJ-qDDY7f

It would appear that in Eastern days it was the 213 and it did indeed extend to Bathgate - https://flic.kr/p/btEmdZ

 

[route101]

The E300s have been excellent buses for the 1 routes with their 6 cylinder engines giving them a very lively performance. But as they are now 7 years old I do think it's time to upgrade the 1 with new kit and to transfer the existing E300 onto the likes of the 7 or 9.

E300 lively , they feel like they run on rails and short shift

 

[route101]

Will be a nice fit for them. I still remember when the 41 had the light blue branding when Overground was around

Noticed the e400s on the 41 , a route that kinda goes under radar , to me because of its sneaky route out of town.

 

[route101]

Trains from Lanarkshire don't go via High Street or Queen Street though, they go via Argyle Street and Central Low level. It's hardly a 5 minute walk from either of those stations to the Uni's. Perhaps an idea could be to divert the 255 from Parkhead to the City Centre via Dennistoun instead of following the 2, 61 and 240 down the Gallowgate.

Coatbridge and Airdrie are in Lanarkshire . More than a 5 min walk i can assure you . Look at at all the people streaming along Gordon St at peaks.

 

[route101]

There's 4 pink E200MMCs and they're the same colour as the 65, I think these where for the 65 originally and they've went with the smaller version for the 65 instead and it's left them to mill about on any route that needs them

]Often see them on the 65 . If they were painting in error ,either theres no time to repaint or dont want them on the 34

 

[route101]

Never used a service more battered than the 1s tbh. Even the deckers for the 1C/1D aren't quite as strong as they used to be. Used to dart along the expressway on the outside lane and now it's a case of staying inside lane doing 30mph at most. Even when I've got them and they've been 15/20mins late the same thing has still happened and the drivers have had zero chance of making up lost time

How often do you get caught up in traffic on the expresswayy ?