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XAM2175

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8 Jun 2016
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Glasgow
Out of interest of another perspective what would you suggest differently? If there wasn't as much competition in Glasgow the current fare system would be reasonable but when there's other alternatives as viable as the subway, rail etc then it needs to drop.

The "big-picture" view here is that a properly-integrated public transport service shouldn't have competition between modes. The exact setting of fares within the integrated system is then a question of what you think is an acceptable level of subsidy against an acceptable level of user subsidy.
 

PaulMc7

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The "big-picture" view here is that a properly-integrated public transport service shouldn't have competition between modes. The exact setting of fares within the integrated system is then a question of what you think is an acceptable level of subsidy against an acceptable level of user subsidy.

Yeah there's definitely a lot to work on as far as public transport as a whole in Glasgow goes. Definitely a lot for the government especially to think about
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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Anyone remember the X81 from Auchinairn to City Centre that ran at peaks?

Given what the route of that was and the fact they ended up pulling it I'm still a bit baffled by the planning of the X2. Fair enough it's probably to compete with the train but if an express route didn't work with no train at peak times then what would change with it especially when you've already annoyed the locals in Robroyston by taking out the 19A that they actually had options with? Can't even get to the Asda from Briarcroft or Glendale if you aren't able-bodied or down to Provanmill or Royston either from those areas. Can't get up to Robroyston from before Provanmill without a bus switch either and with the 8 being every 30 mins that's off putting. Also worth noting how early the last 8s each way are from Robroyston Asda. 18:14 towards QEUH and 18:02 towards Parkhead

Would certainly have been interesting to see the actual passenger numbers for both the 19A pre cut and the X2 when it started. Can't imagine the X2 was any better than the 19A was given that Royston contributed a fair load at times

Would also be good to get an insight into loss makers and exactly how far off being profitable they are too. Wouldn't be surprised if some were a good bit off but must be close with others
 
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PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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4,029
Only thing I can think of is Muirhead demand being up due to the X37 being taken out of there by going straight onto the motorway after Mollinsburn. Will also allow people to go from the 35 to the X3 at Craiglinn Interchange too. Could see them keeping the 35 as just going to Condorrat permanently too
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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10,595
Anyone remember the X81 from Auchinairn to City Centre that ran at peaks?

Given what the route of that was and the fact they ended up pulling it I'm still a bit baffled by the planning of the X2. Fair enough it's probably to compete with the train but if an express route didn't work with no train at peak times then what would change with it especially when you've already annoyed the locals in Robroyston by taking out the 19A that they actually had options with? Can't even get to the Asda from Briarcroft or Glendale if you aren't able-bodied or down to Provanmill or Royston either from those areas. Can't get up to Robroyston from before Provanmill without a bus switch either and with the 8 being every 30 mins that's off putting. Also worth noting how early the last 8s each way are from Robroyston Asda. 18:14 towards QEUH and 18:02 towards Parkhead

Would certainly have been interesting to see the actual passenger numbers for both the 19A pre cut and the X2 when it started. Can't imagine the X2 was any better than the 19A was given that Royston contributed a fair load at times

Would also be good to get an insight into loss makers and exactly how far off being profitable they are too. Wouldn't be surprised if some were a good bit off but must be close with others

Is the railway station easier for people of Robroyston?
 

Jordan Adam

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12 Sep 2017
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5,514
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Aberdeen
I think they planning on Midland bluebird scalling back its services via slow road. I think x35 and x36 will merge. Leaving x37 via m80.

It does seem the increase on the X3 is to make up for potential cuts to the Midland services. I'm not sure i agree about the X35/X36 merging, i think it's more likely the X36/X37 will be combined between Cumbernauld and Glasgow to prove a 30 minute frequency (hourly to Falkirk or Stirling) with the X35 cut back to operating Cumbernauld - Falkirk as a 35.

It makes sense as for the foreseeable future routes like the X35-X37 likely will see a downturn in use as people are sticking more to their local area.
 

route101

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16 May 2010
Messages
10,595
Most new cars are on finance of some sort these days. A dealer once told me that 15 years ago he knew the on the road price of all cars in his dealership, now he'd struggle if someone asked cash, all he knows is monthly.

I remember when I was young you got your parents car if you were lucky or you saved up for a banger. Now it seems most 18 year olds get given cars for themselves!

Used cars can be a bit of a bargain these days, if you can get a good one and not one flogged by someone who hasn't cared cause they're handing it back.

Only had one car, paid £1500 for it , things went wrong and i gave it up 8 months later. Parents were not keen on helping , kinda like how can you afford a car?

I heard other option is to take out a loan then buy car out right.
 

Brimfulofasha

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Joined
31 Mar 2020
Messages
37
Location
Glasgow
I'm just having a look at the 57 timetable just now. Is the service interworked with anything else? The 10 possibly? When I used to drive it you where a 56 leaving Auchinairn then changed to a 57 at the bus stop on Peat Road before going into the Pollok Centre (Silverburn)

The 57 terminates at Westerhill, primarily to serve the Aviva complex which may be closing, and the 87 terminates at Auchinairn Road on the border between Robroyston and Bishopbriggs (Woodhill), so it would probably be the latter to which the discussed extension would apply. To be honest, I doubt the demand would be there. Most folk in Woodhill drive to Asda Robroyston and if you're busing from further away, Bishopbriggs Asda (88/89) is easier. They even tried a bus that proceeded from Woodhill along Wester Cleddens Road to Bishopbriggs Cross for a while (was it the 11?), but that didn't last long. I never used it.

During the major part of lockdown the 57 terminated at Balornock East, where the 57A usually terminates. In my opinion, if Aviva closes, the Woodhill loop only really needs 1 bus. So if Northgate Road could do without, the 57/A could both terminate at Balornock East. Would that save buses?

Anyone remember the X81 from Auchinairn to City Centre that ran at peaks?

I used that for university, and then to commute when it handily took me to Charing Cross in the mornings for a while, before it moved to Buchanan Bus Station. The usual story - it was busy at peak to/from Robroyston, although motorway traffic would often make it 'six-and-half-a-dozen' (is that how you type it?) with the slower buses 10/19A, and then dead during the day, before they made it peak only and then it was withdrawn entirely. My most dramatic bus breakdown experience occurred on an X81 on the M80.

Is the railway station easier for people of Robroyston?

Although called Robroyston railway station, it's on the other side of the M80, really next to Millerston. It'll be handy for the new estate (preparation earthworks underway) on that side, but less so for most of the Robroyston estates. I just measured the walking route from where the 19A used to terminate: 1.27 miles (about 22 minutes according to Google). I suppose that might be quicker for some, although it's only about 1 train per hour to Glasgow (2 at peak). No use for the elderly or infirm.
 

156478

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2013
Messages
186
Spotted this on Facebook from around just over a week ago. Not seen anything more recent but it's interesting to see that the X1 might come back. I'm not 100% expecting it back but I wasn't expecting the 208 back either way

The X1, the route that refuses to die!

I'll throw this idea into the ring. Run an X255. Some token morning peak expresses that start in run from High Earnock then Hamilton town centre following the X1 route then via Bothwell and Uddingston on the 255 to near Daldowie and then send them on the M73 and M8 motorway into town.

Hamilton keeps some semblence of a prestigous express bus and Bothwell and Uddingston gets a slightly quicker bus into and out of Glasgow at peak times.

Maybe you could run one at roughly 0630 and 0730 and tie them in with the 255s so theres a 20 minute service from Uddingston to Glasgow and one at 1630 and 1730 in the opposite direction from Buchannan Bus Station tied around 1610/1650/1710 and 1750 255s from the Bus station.

The biggest fly in the ointment is that First have gradually cut down the 255s. Back in the Barbie days it was every 15 minutes Glasgow to Newarthill, now its a shadow of its former self and the more profitable bit Newarthill to Motherwell kept the Glasgow to Hamilton bit commercially afloat.
And then folks will complain the X255 takes too long as its going via Uddingston and Bothwell not use it, then one breaks down and before you know it then First will attempt to take that off and the cycle repeats itself......
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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4,029
Noticed as well with the changes that the 10, 57 and 57A don't have a frequency increase up to closer to their normal levels yet and stayed at every 20 mins each although I actually thought that would happen given that Cardonald College students aren't back yet so there's no need for the 10 being every 15 mins and with the interwork to the 57 that makes sense to leave that as every 20 mins too then the 57A gets tied in with that.

Guessing the same was applied to the 87 and 88 too because of the college at Springburn and then the 89 gets tied into that
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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4,029
The X1, the route that refuses to die!

I'll throw this idea into the ring. Run an X255. Some token morning peak expresses that start in run from High Earnock then Hamilton town centre following the X1 route then via Bothwell and Uddingston on the 255 to near Daldowie and then send them on the M73 and M8 motorway into town.

Hamilton keeps some semblence of a prestigous express bus and Bothwell and Uddingston gets a slightly quicker bus into and out of Glasgow at peak times.

Maybe you could run one at roughly 0630 and 0730 and tie them in with the 255s so theres a 20 minute service from Uddingston to Glasgow and one at 1630 and 1730 in the opposite direction from Buchannan Bus Station tied around 1610/1650/1710 and 1750 255s from the Bus station.

The biggest fly in the ointment is that First have gradually cut down the 255s. Back in the Barbie days it was every 15 minutes Glasgow to Newarthill, now its a shadow of its former self and the more profitable bit Newarthill to Motherwell kept the Glasgow to Hamilton bit commercially afloat.
And then folks will complain the X255 takes too long as its going via Uddingston and Bothwell not use it, then one breaks down and before you know it then First will attempt to take that off and the cycle repeats itself......

The X1 does seem to be a cat with 9 lives kind of service tbh. Yeah I remember an idea for a X255 kind of service being mentioned on here before. Could even keep the short work 255s between Hamilton and Powburn Toll off to compensate for it and save elsewhere.

I do think there will definitely be a way to get results out of the X1 but it's hard because it's a service heavily influenced by student use and I know from the fact my sister goes to Strathclyde Uni that there's likely to be blended learning meaning students being in less days each week plus the first 2 weeks of her course are completely online. I'd imagine the City of Glasgow college could also be pretty similar meaning it could be well into October by the time things are normalised which isn't going to help matters.

I'd love to know the actual passenger numbers for the X1 off peak because it's certainly been busy within Hamilton when I have used it and a lot of locals I've seen discussing it on social media seem to see the 226 being quieter than it when they compare that to the X1. I doubt they'll all be wrong about their local bus plus I've seen mentions of ticket machines not working when people have used it. Again I don't believe everything on social media but when the same thing pops up more than once it's something to think about.
 

sannox

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1 Mar 2016
Messages
384
The X1 dilemma sounds very reminiscent to the McGill's X23- although McGill's didn't deny the X23 was busy in the peaks, but said outwith it was too quiet.
 

lastbus

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9 Sep 2018
Messages
1,001
The X1 does seem to be a cat with 9 lives kind of service tbh. Yeah I remember an idea for a X255 kind of service being mentioned on here before. Could even keep the short work 255s between Hamilton and Powburn Toll off to compensate for it and save elsewhere.

I do think there will definitely be a way to get results out of the X1 but it's hard because it's a service heavily influenced by student use and I know from the fact my sister goes to Strathclyde Uni that there's likely to be blended learning meaning students being in less days each week plus the first 2 weeks of her course are completely online. I'd imagine the City of Glasgow college could also be pretty similar meaning it could be well into October by the time things are normalised which isn't going to help matters.

I'd love to know the actual passenger numbers for the X1 off peak because it's certainly been busy within Hamilton when I have used it and a lot of locals I've seen discussing it on social media seem to see the 226 being quieter than it when they compare that to the X1. I doubt they'll all be wrong about their local bus plus I've seen mentions of ticket machines not working when people have used it. Again I don't believe everything on social media but when the same thing pops up more than once it's something to think about.
No ones denying that the X1 is busy at peaks and of course the 226 would look quieter than the X1 as it’s a higher frequency so the passengers are spread out a bit more. The X1 is used in Hamilton again no ones denying that that’s why the last time it was coming off there was a 225 going on to serve the Hamilton area of the X1 route but a few passengers in Hamilton does not cover the cost of running off peak into Glasgow so on a whole the service runs at a loss. The X1 if it comes back it won’t be until colleges and unis are as close to normal as possible as it is mostly students who use it.
 

PaulMc7

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The X1 dilemma sounds very reminiscent to the McGill's X23- although McGill's didn't deny the X23 was busy in the peaks, but said outwith it was too quiet.

Mcgills seemed to kill off most of their Erskine passengers across all their services through there tbh to the point where every bus could be 1 an hour now and still not be full.


No ones denying that the X1 is busy at peaks and of course the 226 would look quieter than the X1 as it’s a higher frequency so the passengers are spread out a bit more. The X1 is used in Hamilton again no ones denying that that’s why the last time it was coming off there was a 225 going on to serve the Hamilton area of the X1 route but a few passengers in Hamilton does not cover the cost of running off peak into Glasgow so on a whole the service runs at a loss. The X1 if it comes back it won’t be until colleges and unis are as close to normal as possible as it is mostly students who use it.

To me, the common sense approach would be either make it 1 an hour off peak or just run it in Hamilton off peak. Either way you're saving buses during the day even if it's not back til October. Even the previous idea suggested about an X255 would work at peaks with a local service covering it during the day
 

TheGrandWazoo

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18 Feb 2013
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To me, the common sense approach would be either make it 1 an hour off peak or just run it in Hamilton off peak. Either way you're saving buses during the day even if it's not back til October. Even the previous idea suggested about an X255 would work at peaks with a local service covering it during the day
The problem is probably that even then, First are still going to be losing money. I was sceptical before Covid that the X1 had a future; think the bat virus has probably finished it off.
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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The problem is probably that even then, First are still going to be losing money. I was sceptical before Covid that the X1 had a future; think the bat virus has probably finished it off.

I think the problem with First is they leave services for too long without changes when they become borderline or loss makers and then expect things to get better when in reality it takes changes to make things better. Probably didn't help the bad taste either given that local politicians found out by email at 6pm on a Friday. That could have been handled so much better and I don't blame people in Hamilton for thinking First don't care about their passengers now because that definitely comes across that way
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I think the problem with First is they leave services for too long without changes when they become borderline or loss makers and then expect things to get better when in reality it takes changes to make things better. Probably didn't help the bad taste either given that local politicians found out by email at 6pm on a Friday. That could have been handled so much better and I don't blame people in Hamilton for thinking First don't care about their passengers now because that definitely comes across that way

Problem is that if they then change to quickly, then the accusation is they're being too quick, always changing things, lack of stability etc.

I don't know the circumstances behind the announcement. You may be right that they were doing it then to avoid scrutiny in some way but equally, it might have been that the news was being leaked so they had to act quickly.
 

PaulMc7

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Problem is that if they then change to quickly, then the accusation is they're being too quick, always changing things, lack of stability etc.

I don't know the circumstances behind the announcement. You may be right that they were doing it then to avoid scrutiny in some way but equally, it might have been that the news was being leaked so they had to act quickly.

They always seem to end up having meetings with local politicians when cuts are announced anyway because of the fight back to save services so if anything it would probably be easier to just have the meetings before cuts anyway. Could make things so much easier and avoid the bad press that comes with it just with a bit of communication. Would probably get an idea of how to make the services viable too

Would probably also avoid the need for major cuts as often too. "What's being cut now?" Seems to be a mindset any time changes have been announced in recent years and it's something that needs to be avoided
 

TheGrandWazoo

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They always seem to end up having meetings with local politicians when cuts are announced anyway because of the fight back to save services so if anything it would probably be easier to just have the meetings before cuts anyway. Could make things so much easier and avoid the bad press that comes with it just with a bit of communication. Would probably get an idea of how to make the services viable too

Would probably also avoid the need for major cuts as often too. "What's being cut now?" Seems to be a mindset any time changes have been announced in recent years and it's something that needs to be avoided

That does run the risk of the politicians running to the press and spinning things. Of course, I'm sure the local politicos are above that sort of thing :rolleyes:
 

PaulMc7

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That does run the risk of the politicians running to the press and spinning things. Of course, I'm sure the local politicos are above that sort of thing :rolleyes:

Would say the press in Scotland spin far more than any non-Tory politician could tbh. Don't want to get too political though
 

PaulMc7

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Thought I'd share this here because it's a well-served area by First. I mean it might help them but until they massively improve the shopping centre and what's in it then I doubt bus use will go up that much to Clydebank. Considering it's a 10 min bus journey for me you'd think I'd like how handy it is but honestly I'd rather travel further for better shopping centres. It's good for locals who can't get about well but it's not somewhere you'd go out of your way to go to often. Due to be completed early 2022 too so the landscape of First and general public transport could be very different by then
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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10,595
I think the problem with First is they leave services for too long without changes when they become borderline or loss makers and then expect things to get better when in reality it takes changes to make things better. Probably didn't help the bad taste either given that local politicians found out by email at 6pm on a Friday. That could have been handled so much better and I don't blame people in Hamilton for thinking First don't care about their passengers now because that definitely comes across that way

Was looking on First website. For any of the routes that have been withdrawn ,they still state suspended and no mention of these routes being permentaly dropped.
 

DC21

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31 Jul 2020
Messages
117
Location
Greater Glasgow
Given how complex the Lanarkshire Network is around Motherwell area, how would you redevelope the Lanarkshire network for First in that area? Add what you think would improve the network, heres my ideas:

93 - Wishaw Local : keep as is as its an SPT Service.
193 - Reroute Service as Wishaw General to Coltness same route excluding Pather as 242 would serve it.
210 - Wishaw to Law : keep as is as it ties in with 93.
240 - Overtown to Glasgow : Make a 12 min service Mon-Sat day ,Sun 30 mins day, Evening Mon-Sun 30/60 Mins (evening and sunday runs one starts Overtown 1PH and Motherwell Station Alternative givong 30 mins freq from motherwell and 1PH from Overtown
241 - Cleland to North Mortherwell : 12 min service Mon-Sat day, Sun 60 mins day, Evening Mon-Sun 60 Mins (All Journeys Cleland to North Motherwell)
242 - Pather to Holytown : 20 min freq Mon-Sat day with peak journeys Mon-Fri running to Maxim Park. New Evening and Sunday service every 60 mins Pather to Holytown.
243 - NEW SERVICE Lanark to Wishaw General : Mon-Sat every 15 mins, Evenings and Sundays 60/120 mins.
244 - Forgewood - North Lodge : Keep as is as an SPT route
254 - Newarthill - Motherwell : every 15 mins Mon-Sat, 60 Evening and Sunday
355 - Newhouse - North Lodge : Keep as is as an SPT route
265 - NEW SERVICE - Shotts to Motherwell TC : Every 20 mins Mon-Sat, Evening and Sunday 60 mins. (Runs to Hamilton evening and Sunday)
266 - Newmains to Hamilton : Every 20 mins Mon-Sat, Evening and Sunday 60 mins.
251 - Wishaw - Larkhall : Keep as is as SPT service.
252 - NEW SERVICE : Netherburn to Wishaw General via Larkhall,Hamilton,Motherwell,Muirhouse Mon-Sat 30 mins day, 60 evening and Sunday
X10 - NEW SERVICE : Lanark to Glasgow via Carluke,Wishaw,Motherwell,M8,& Fort Express : Mon-Sat 60 mins, no evening or Sunday service.
X11 - Newmains to Glasgow via Wishaw, Netherton, Motherwell Express: Every 60 Mins Mon-Sat day, Every 60 Mins on Sunday, No evening service. (Sunday journeys serve Glasgow Fort)
X12 - NEW SERVICE : Cleland to Glasgow via Wishaw,Craigneuk,Motherwell,M8 Express : Mon-Fri Morning and evening peak services.
X13 - NEW SERVICE : Hamilton Bus Station to Glasgow express via M74/M8 Mon-Fri Peak Journeys.
 

PaulMc7

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9 Jul 2019
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I do feel like Hamilton/Motherwell services need a revamp tbh but it's hard to tell how you could change them significantly especially as a lot of the key ones are branded. 201, 240, 241, 242, 254, X11

I'd merge the 229 into the 227 and just make them be Little Earnock to Whitehill/Eddlewood hourly each, I don't expect the 266 to last to Shotts every 15 mins for too long either. Don't think there's much else really possible unless they split the X11 into 2 half-hourly services by running one to Cleland like they used to I'm sure but I don't see it happening. It's hard to do anything really because of Whitelaws, the train, JMB etc. First won't run anything else towards Carluke/Lanark/Larkhall etc again probably

Diving further south in Lanarkshire, East Kilbride for the size of the area only has the 6,18,21,201 and 205 from First unless something is done about the 31 but still a lot of time on that with nothing concrete yet. Seen that the petition for it has nearly 2500 signatures according to local politicians though. I'd imagine there might be a local service like what the M1 is to cover Stewartfield and Kirktonholme although there's not been anything about whether or not First is even taking back over the M1 for SPT
 
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