First Greater Glasgow

alangla

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11 Apr 2018
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Spotted an 07 plate Gemini on a 4 tonight in a fresh red-fronted livery. No route branding, adverts or fleet name, but the usual let buses pull out & CCTV stickers were attached. Unfortunately slightly spoiled by the offside rad grille hanging partially off.
 
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Stef434

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26 Mar 2018
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114
Ive seen them a few times in Glasgow on the 240, even more so on a Sunday.
Overtown streetlights are the SK63 and from down south and are occasionally used on the OT 240s ,on a Sunday the Blantyre streetlights will more than likely be on the 240 due to the service rotation on Sundays
 

JumpinTrainz

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30 Jul 2018
Messages
830
Spotted an 07 plate Gemini on a 4 tonight in a fresh red-fronted livery. No route branding, adverts or fleet name, but the usual let buses pull out & CCTV stickers were attached. Unfortunately slightly spoiled by the offside rad grille hanging partially off.
I’m sure these are for the new UWS route and are moving to Blantyre for uni starting in September
 

JumpinTrainz

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30 Jul 2018
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830
75 singles , awful lot of singles hmmm
I’m always team deckers but interestingly enough I’ve noticed a lot more singles on routes like the 60 and the 57/57A. Perhaps in ousting a lot of the ex-London deckers they’re looking to replace them with new singles and run more frequent services. I do believe that deckers are required for peak services even on routes like the 2 which run what feels like every 2 mins! I’d take new singles over older deckers any day! That surge of ex-London buses ruined Glasgow in my opinion! Going back to 2009/2010 routes all over Glasgow which were used to new buses were ruined by disgusting used Tridents. Yes we’ve gotten rid of the worst I’d say but many are still very grubby and not what Glasgow needs.
 

route101

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16 May 2010
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5,927
I’m always team deckers but interestingly enough I’ve noticed a lot more singles on routes like the 60 and the 57/57A. Perhaps in ousting a lot of the ex-London deckers they’re looking to replace them with new singles and run more frequent services. I do believe that deckers are required for peak services even on routes like the 2 which run what feels like every 2 mins! I’d take new singles over older deckers any day! That surge of ex-London buses ruined Glasgow in my opinion! Going back to 2009/2010 routes all over Glasgow which were used to new buses were ruined by disgusting used Tridents. Yes we’ve gotten rid of the worst I’d say but many are still very grubby and not what Glasgow needs.
Im in favour with deckers , the 2 runs mostly on singles and is busy , same with 240 and 267 . Quite often get on these and full and standing . If you run it very frequently , you still get large gaps .
Some tridents like the W reg ones which are gone were actually nicer than the later ones . I find the 02 ones the worst.
Id still take a decker over a new single as my route is less frequent and more space on a decker/
 

JonnyB1984

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29 Apr 2018
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86
Location
Glasgow
The only thing confirmed at the moment is 25 E400s. Yes, there is a lot of talk about them going on the 18 but again it's not confirmed and won't be confirmed until they actually arrive which won't be until around another month or so at least!

Glasgow is not replacing deckers with Singles and it's certainly not increasing the frequency of services where deckers operate as most of these services already run a very good frequency. Also, GCC wants fewer buses/vehicles on the roads around the city centre, not more.

older decker stock will go once these 25 deckers come with more leaving the fleet after the new year.

In terms of the 2/240/267 and a few other routes actually, doesn't matter how frequent you run a bus, you will always get a gap or bunching due to traffic/roadworks etc.

This is one of the main issues with long routes.

That was one of the reasons the 267 now only runs Glasgow-Hamilton rather than to shotts/Newmains.

The 240 has been discussed many times about being split but nothing has ever materialised from it.
 

route101

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5,927
The only thing confirmed at the moment is 25 E400s. Yes, there is a lot of talk about them going on the 18 but again it's not confirmed and won't be confirmed until they actually arrive which won't be until around another month or so at least!

Glasgow is not replacing deckers with Singles and it's certainly not increasing the frequency of services where deckers operate as most of these services already run a very good frequency. Also, GCC wants fewer buses/vehicles on the roads around the city centre, not more.

older decker stock will go once these 25 deckers come with more leaving the fleet after the new year.

In terms of the 2/240/267 and a few other routes actually, doesn't matter how frequent you run a bus, you will always get a gap or bunching due to traffic/roadworks etc.

This is one of the main issues with long routes.

That was one of the reasons the 267 now only runs Glasgow-Hamilton rather than to shotts/Newmains.

The 240 has been discussed many times about being split but nothing has ever materialised from it.
18 could do with new buses , busy route .

Im surprised the 6 has not been split , regularly has bunching , though you do loose the Southside /West end links.
I think a lot of it is the run through the city centre , around Queen St etc and the lights.
 

overthewater

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16 Apr 2012
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6,745
How do you solve the 240? It really should be 261 since it provides a joint 5min service along some parts. Bellshill can still cause delays, but its the demand here for a bus every 10mins? Ie Panther to Retail park at Birkenshaw every 20mins with buses to Glasgow every 20mins?
 

JonnyB1984

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29 Apr 2018
Messages
86
Location
Glasgow
How do you solve the 240? It really should be 261 since it provides a joint 5min service along some parts. Bellshill can still cause delays, but its the demand here for a bus every 10mins? Ie Panther to Retail park at Birkenshaw every 20mins with buses to Glasgow every 20mins?
The 240 is a broken route and will be for the foreseeable future unless passenger complaints spike and triggers an investigation into the service. Inspectors are stationed at Motherwell monitoring the service daily and very often buses being pulled at Motherwell and the service restarted to go back into Glasgow from there to make the time back up.

240 is actually timetabled for a 12min frequency but advertised at 10mins as the schedule is barely stuck to and you do normally get a bus within every 10mins but I have seen me waiting for 25+ for a driver switch when I helped Blantyre a while back.

The 240 doesn't serve Pather anymore and hasn't for a good while and instead runs Overtown Depot -Glasgow BS 7 days a week but I agree Birkenshaw/Viewpark would be the best place to split this route and leave the 12min frequency in place.

240a (Overtown to Birkenshaw/Viewpark), 240b (Birkenshaw/Viewpark to Bus Station) and then put the 240 into craigneuk scheme and run service 242 via retail park and into Wishawhill. (Splitting the route with the numbers above would mean the route branding doesn't need to be scrapped)
 

Gingerbus1991

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30 Jul 2018
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873
Having been on a west (Clydebank)-bound Trident on the 60 right in the midst of the evening peak more than once, I'm not sure that fully converting it back to singles is a good idea, even with the associated cost savings of such a move. Same with the 60A, as that is also routinely rammed in the evening rush, even with Tridents being the overall dominant vehicle type. One hopes that with the incoming new stock, a major reshuffle takes place so that Geminis (both B7TLs & B9TLs) come to dominate both routes.

When it comes down to it, the vast majority of Tridents, as well as they have served the city and it's environs, are life expired and fit only for the scrappers. Only a select handful of the best examples are likely to even be considered for transfer elsewhere and even then I wouldn't bet on it happening. Just a matter of waiting and seeing what happens, as is always the way with this sorta thing...


Yeah, The One is a heck of a success story, the passenger numbers testifying to that.

If FiG were to replace the route's current E300s anytime soon, I'm not 100% sure what they'd go for. Something from Volvo/Wright like in the past would be nice and much better suited to the nature of the route (a la East Coast Buses' Eclipse 3-bodied B8RLEs), but something from A.D.L's range would be a far more likely choice, considering they've standardized on the latter since 2014.

PS - the B8RLE/Eclipse 3 talk is hypothetical and nothing but pure speculation on my part, so please don't take any of it seriously lol
Personally I’d choose Eclipse B8RLE 13.2m versions for these routes
 

goldisgood

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5 Mar 2018
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381
Personally I’d choose Eclipse B8RLE 13.2m versions for these routes
But would First? Answer, probably not, seeing as they have only taken E200 MMCs and Streetlites in recent years. I agree that they would probably suit the route, but if the stock is renewed then it would likely be e200 mmcs.
 

Gingerbus1991

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30 Jul 2018
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Does Glasgow really need tiny buses? There are a few random routes like the 81 or the Hamilton locals which they might suit, but if the numbers only work with such small, 16 year old vehicles, you’ve got to ask if these routes are worth it? The ex-Bristol darts that came up earlier in the year seem much more appropriate – a few more for the Motherwell/Vale of Leven locals would be more suitable replacements for the Renowns.

More generally, with no sign of any new stock beyond the much anticipated 25 mmc, you’ve got to wonder how they square the LEZ circle. With so few new buses arriving across the group, there isn’t much chance of newer cascades. I know I’m repeating myself, but the shabbiness of the Glasgow fleet these days is something to behold. If the city council or SPT do actually go down the quality partnership route, First will have to dig deep to meet their end of any bargain.
Glasgow needs a solid order of B5LH 11.4m, B5TL 10.5m, B8RLE 13.2m, perhaps another smattering of 200 n 400 mmcs as well something electric only, the fleet is in ruins atm.
 

GaryMcEwan

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20 Aug 2013
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Bridgeton, Glasgow
Glasgow needs a solid order of B5LH 11.4m, B5TL 10.5m, B8RLE 13.2m, perhaps another smattering of 200 n 400 mmcs as well something electric only, the fleet is in ruins atm.
I wouldn't thank you for B5TLs in Glasgow. The fleet is enough of a mish mash at the minute, plus they look absolutely horrendous.

The seem to be on the right path with buying in ADL and should keep on going down that route.
 

Gingerbus1991

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I wouldn't thank you for B5TLs in Glasgow. The fleet is enough of a mish mash at the minute, plus they look absolutely horrendous.

The seem to be on the right path with buying in ADL and should keep on going down that route.
The LH/TL chassis can have 400 bodywork mounted to them, plus a smaller 4-cylinder engine typically offers better fuel economy at town speeds and at idle, while cummins do offer stop/start I see that to be problematic in many years to come, even if the start motors are uprated.
 

smtglasgow

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15 Feb 2011
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Agree completely that the 240 is a problem. It’s one of my 2 local routes (the other is the 255), but it is a VERY busy route, at least between Glasgow and Bellshill. Its been running every 12 mins over the summer but goes back to every 10 mins tomorrow. The morning peak is up to every 8 mins, and every bus is rammed by Tollcross – this is a very successful route in terms of passenger numbers. The service has really struggled to cope with loads over the summer at a reduced frequency, so cutting it to every 20 mins would be madness. A lot of people at the Glasgow end chose the 240 over the 61 to avoid the driver changeovers at the Forge retail park.

But the real problem seems to be delays in Wishaw, Motherwell and Bellshill from mid afternoon onwards affecting departures from Glasgow – buses regularly arrive in Glasgow 30+ late and have to go out of service as the driver is out of hours/ sent to restart further up the route.

No idea how you solve it. There is a big flow across Motherwell on college days so a split there wouldn’t be popular – especially now JMB are starting up. Remember that Viewpark and Tannochside are some distance from their nearest rail station, so there are a lot of people buying network season tickets.
 

Gingerbus1991

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Agree completely that the 240 is a problem. It’s one of my 2 local routes (the other is the 255), but it is a VERY busy route, at least between Glasgow and Bellshill. Its been running every 12 mins over the summer but goes back to every 10 mins tomorrow. The morning peak is up to every 8 mins, and every bus is rammed by Tollcross – this is a very successful route in terms of passenger numbers. The service has really struggled to cope with loads over the summer at a reduced frequency, so cutting it to every 20 mins would be madness. A lot of people at the Glasgow end chose the 240 over the 61 to avoid the driver changeovers at the Forge retail park.

But the real problem seems to be delays in Wishaw, Motherwell and Bellshill from mid afternoon onwards affecting departures from Glasgow – buses regularly arrive in Glasgow 30+ late and have to go out of service as the driver is out of hours/ sent to restart further up the route.

No idea how you solve it. There is a big flow across Motherwell on college days so a split there wouldn’t be popular – especially now JMB are starting up. Remember that Viewpark and Tannochside are some distance from their nearest rail station, so there are a lot of people buying network season tickets.
Sounds to me like it just needs a more savvy approach when timing the route at rush hours, as they say better to much as not enough..

If there is capacity issues on route can doubles not be used on route or is there height restrictions on the 240?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I wouldn't thank you for B5TLs in Glasgow. The fleet is enough of a mish mash at the minute, plus they look absolutely horrendous.

The seem to be on the right path with buying in ADL and should keep on going down that route.
Agree with you on those points. There are enough different vehicle types in the First empire let along Glasgow and they need to get greater standardisation in order to minimise spares and improve procurement leverage. Also, they haven't gone for Volvos because of their expense both in purchase, parts and fuel consumption.

Therefore, I'd be with you in suggesting that any new vehicles will be either e200mmc or e400mmc ADLs.
 

Gingerbus1991

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Agree with you on those points. There are enough different vehicle types in the First empire let along Glasgow and they need to get greater standardisation in order to minimise spares and improve procurement leverage. Also, they haven't gone for Volvos because of their expense both in purchase, parts and fuel consumption.

Therefore, I'd be with you in suggesting that any new vehicles will be either e200mmc or e400mmc ADLs.
Drove for both Stagecoach and Lothian and yet found lothians volvos of most ages more reliable and better to drive
 

goldisgood

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5 Mar 2018
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Sounds to me like it just needs a more savvy approach when timing the route at rush hours, as they say better to much as not enough..

If there is capacity issues on route can doubles not be used on route or is there height restrictions on the 240?
I think that there are some low-ish bridges, but low height deckers could run along the route.
 

JumpinTrainz

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30 Jul 2018
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The latest ADL products still strike me as being extremely flimsy. I just can’t see buses like the E200s and E300s lasting any length of time. Yes they’re nice enough buses for now but let’s look in 5 years from now. The smaller wheels make them lighter and more eco friendly but you feel every bump on the road. They rattle a lot more and just don’t have that same quality buses did only in the last decade.

Buses like the B10BLEs are still going strong and are starting to be withdrawn but they are solid buses. N-SOS deckers were still running services in 2012. Strong, sturdy buses seem to be a thing of the past. The last proper good buses Glasgow got in my opinion were the B7RLEs or the B9TLs. Not a huge fan of the Streetlites or ADL stock...
 

Gingerbus1991

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The latest ADL products still strike me as being extremely flimsy. I just can’t see buses like the E200s and E300s lasting any length of time. Yes they’re nice enough buses for now but let’s look in 5 years from now. The smaller wheels make them lighter and more eco friendly but you feel every bump on the road. They rattle a lot more and just don’t have that same quality buses did only in the last decade.

Buses like the B10BLEs are still going strong and are starting to be withdrawn but they are solid buses. N-SOS deckers were still running services in 2012. Strong, sturdy buses seem to be a thing of the past. The last proper good buses Glasgow got in my opinion were the B7RLEs or the B9TLs. Not a huge fan of the Streetlites or ADL stock...
Id agree with B7RLE and B9TLs as well for being good buses!
Oddly enough the brand that doesnt get enough recognition is optare who seem to put a pretty good bus tegether as modern buses go!
 

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