That's the problem with the current service level though. There's so many variable shifts in hospitals that a service level being worse than Sunday service frequency becomes a major problem not to mention other people that still need to get to work too. It's hard to socially distance on a bus but it's only going to get even harder with these reductions being so harsh. Every 20/30 mins on the main routes could work but there's main routes going worse than that which will cause a barrel load of problems for people connecting between 2 services. It's only going to turn more people away after this is all over too because people will remember that the passenger hasn't been put first again
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First Greater Glasgow
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That's the problem with the current service level though. There's so many variable shifts in hospitals that a service level being worse than Sunday service frequency becomes a major problem not to mention other people that still need to get to work too. It's hard to socially distance on a bus but it's only going to get even harder with these reductions being so harsh. Every 20/30 mins on the main routes could work but there's main routes going worse than that which will cause a barrel load of problems for people connecting between 2 services. It's only going to turn more people away after this is all over too because people will remember that the passenger hasn't been put first again
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Scotrail88
Member
- Joined
- 21 Jul 2014
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- 317
Can I just clarify Paul.
You talk about dead buses and routes going off and then complain about the reductions??
Only vital travel is required so reduced services are more that sufficient as you say or have you changed your mind?
Other operators have also reduced services to hospitals such as McGills 17 to hourly and Stagecoach X19 to half hourly.
operators are doing their best and is truly a fight for survival in the industry.
A lot of routes hadn't been cut to levels that make it very difficult for people to get to their work at that point. It's tough for everyone but when your main thing is providing a service to the public you need to make it less problematic for people especially when it's stressful as it is. Going by the fact I've seen so many complaints already shows that this hasn't been done and when things are normal people will remember times like this and it'll hurt First even more. There's more vital workers than a lot of people think especially in Glasgow so they've left a lot of people with no other choice but to avoid buses as social distancing will be much harder
Stan Drews
Established Member
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2013
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- 1,576
Ok, so let’s imagine PaulMc7 Buses are the major provider of bus services in the Glasgow area. The Covid19 crisis has hit hard, and you’re now carrying 5-10% of your normal passengers. Please advise what service levels you will be running, and how many days you think you can afford to do so? Thanks!
If I was the size of first I'd never drop below every 30 min frequency on a service to areas with a lot of supermarkets or hospitals. First also have the financial power to get through too. I'd understand if it was a small independent but it's the most dominant company in the city by a long way
As I've said before I'm fairly pro First as I've relied on them constantly for travel but I think even in this crisis there's been a massive opportunity to get their reputation better missed again. I do think Government subsidy needs to be increased too but doing more to get passengers onside and not turning them away in a time like this could be the difference maker for any operator in this especially the ones who aren't very cash strapped and only operate very few services
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I think you're really missing the point. Operators across the country are haemorrhaging money. Do you have any idea how much companies are losing in these circumstances??
Not missed any point at all tbh. I know they are losing a lot and that's where I think the government needs to help more but changing things that turn more people away that this situation already has will come back and bite them. If you can't even consult passengers in the most stressful time for them too especially when it's what your whole operation is based around then I really don't think you deserve them and a lot of them will feel the same
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
In your mind. The idea that you are consulting people when things are moving quickly and you're losing over a million pounds every week is just not feasible. They are providing services for essential workers - that's it.
This is just you and your usual posts updated with a coronavirus slant.
And here's you with your usual "you're wrong and that's that" slant... I knew it was coming too. I'd say the same about any business who serves the public. As soon as you ignore the people putting money in your pocket that slowly dwindles away. This is times we couldn't have predicted but it's still poor especially when serving key workers is literally keeping people alive
Scotrail88
Member
- Joined
- 21 Jul 2014
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- 317
I think realistic and sensible are 2 outlooks that lack with a lot.
If public services should be main tenet in this time let’s get the libraries open - that’s what your effectively promoting.
You should only be out and using public transport as a last resort. It will be difficult but these are difficult times.
People may need to plan a bit different to normal - but this is not normal.
If public services should be main tenet in this time let’s get the libraries open - that’s what your effectively promoting.
You should only be out and using public transport as a last resort. It will be difficult but these are difficult times.
People may need to plan a bit different to normal - but this is not normal.
My views have always been built off of 2 things:
1) Serving those who need it the most
2) Building the best reputation possible by being there for those who made the business what it was to begin with
As we've discussed to death First fail a great deal with both of those things in normal circumstances. Did I expect too much in these times? Ultimately no. People are being kept alive by key workers so they need the services to be good enough to get to work. The train cuts could have opened up a good chance for First to be seen as the good company for once.
1) Serving those who need it the most
2) Building the best reputation possible by being there for those who made the business what it was to begin with
As we've discussed to death First fail a great deal with both of those things in normal circumstances. Did I expect too much in these times? Ultimately no. People are being kept alive by key workers so they need the services to be good enough to get to work. The train cuts could have opened up a good chance for First to be seen as the good company for once.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
How much do you want to spend on your reputation? And what makes you think that the dozen people a day who might be travelling won't head back to the trains when normality returns (if it ever does)?
I'm sorry - that's just not the reality of the situation, however much you might want it to be.
Enough to build it up. If bus ends up being a better option and a more attractive option people will stay. It's how it's always been. If there was another company with the financial backing that First has in Glasgow who provided a great service and cared about passengers they'd walk all over First. It's just by luck that First have never had another bus company to deal with here that operates as many buses and people don't hate
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
No it isn't. We've had this conversation before - people are not going to spend 40 mins on a bus when they can do the journey in 25 mins on the train. It just doesn't happen - if you want a text book example, look at the EX1 Bathgate to Edinburgh. There are plenty of others around the country.
At the moment, bus companies across the UK are running a skeleton service. There's precious few passengers as it is as all non essential travel is banned so there's no passengers out there to influence.
You have your view, but the reality is much removed from that.
We're talking Glasgow specifically though and the fact it's key workers complaining most is a big big problem when it's only them to influence. My reality would help First and help people get the service they need. It's not rocket science that a company serving the public needs to treat the public with a lot of care. I suppose though I've seen enough reviews about drivers experiences working for them to know that's a massive issue so maybe expecting the same for their customers is a bit of a reach
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
They are treating them with care. Do you honestly think that First Glasgow are running their existing services profitably???
- There are hardly any passengers on the buses so hardly anyone to influence
- They are losing over £1m a week
They're clearly not. There's enough reviews out there from customers and drivers to show that. Ofcourse I don't think it's profitable but by cutting things so much to the point it doesn't even suit key workers then that's even less money coming in. You'll never get my point. You never ever do. I've been on here since July and if there's one person that says I'm wrong for having a different opinion which I'm perfectly entitled to it's constantly you.
The war you seem to have with my socialist driven opinions is becoming bigger than the war between Lothian and First over West Lothian...
goldisgood
Member
- Joined
- 5 Mar 2018
- Messages
- 410
You seem to be missing the fact that, regardless of a company's reputation, they don't have infinite money to spend. At a time like this, bus companies across the company are doing what they can to not go completely bust, which means cutting services. The lack of passengers on the buses, which you have acknowledged in previous posts, can't be sustained. Whilst it would be ideal to keep running more services, the company simply can't survive like that. While it may get them some positive press, a little bit of positive press whilst they are losing even more money won't keep the company in business, so these tough choices have to be made.
scotraildriver
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 1,628
First also have the financial power to get through too. I'd understand if it was a small independent but it's the most dominant company in the city by a long way[/QUOTE]
First are not by any stretch of the imagination in a strong financial position and haven't been for a long time. Every penny is a prisoner and to suggest they can continue to lose vast sums of money is utterly absurd. The do not have financial power as you repeatedly suggest.
First are not by any stretch of the imagination in a strong financial position and haven't been for a long time. Every penny is a prisoner and to suggest they can continue to lose vast sums of money is utterly absurd. The do not have financial power as you repeatedly suggest.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I don't care about your politics. You have opinions - this forum is about discussion and debate. However, opinions are nothing without facts to back them up.
As regards reviews, here's a fun fact for you. Trustpilot have a 95% rating for First Bus as either poor or bad. Brighton and Hove (generally accorded as one of the very best in the UK) have 90% poor or bad. Even the excellent Lothian come in at 64% as poor and bad. If you read on-line reviews, guess what.... the vast majority will be complaints.
Exactly!
They are losing money on what they are running, let alone on running more empty buses. It simply cannot be sustained. The positive press is going to be pretty limited. Very few passengers are allowed to travel anyway so the vast, vast majority who are sat at home.... it means nothing for them.
What part of looking after the drivers involves sending them out unnecessarily and increasing their exposure, to drive more empty buses round than is necessary?
First have already lost one driver to this terrible virus, there is no appetite to be sending more buses out than is necessary, believe me.
You are seriously underestimating the losses being incurred by bus companies. We're talking tens of millions of pounds already. No - the big groups do not "have the financial power to get through". Even just one week of full service but no revenue runs into the millions, losses wise, in some places.
Let's just make some things perfectly clear because some people haven't even noticed I said it:
I referred to the losses
It's key workers who need them with the most concern about service levels
I alluded to the Government needing to do more to help
Can't make people listen to opinions that show concern for those key workers saving lives though clearly.
Having different opinions isn't wrong either. I'm a very open minded person and I take on board what everyone thinks. Some need to do the same.
End of this discussion for me. Said what I think
I referred to the losses
It's key workers who need them with the most concern about service levels
I alluded to the Government needing to do more to help
Can't make people listen to opinions that show concern for those key workers saving lives though clearly.
Having different opinions isn't wrong either. I'm a very open minded person and I take on board what everyone thinks. Some need to do the same.
End of this discussion for me. Said what I think
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First Glasgow have had no choice but to cut services and their will be more big cuts next week buses are not being used so what do u expect them to do
Actually communicate with key workers would be a start. It's clear this has not been done so far.
Also providing drivers with hand sanitiser and cleaning wipes etc instead of making them buy their own too would be helpful
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
No Paul - people have noticed you have said it. However, when myself and four other posters have illustrated the issues, we're not doing so because we aren't listening or it's some personal vendetta. It is not about you, nor your politics, or anything else. This is about the massive financial impact that this is having on the entire bus industry.
Bus companies across the UK are losing millions every week on this epidemic. First Glasgow are running what they can but even then, they are losing money on every journey they're running. What they're running is for key workers. They're not operating them for many other people - there's not many other people at work or out of the house!
They are communicating the changes but things are moving very quickly. They are on the website https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-...dates/coronavirus-covid19-service-information with a full set of timetables. They're tweeting links to that page, and it's also on FB.
Companies across the UK are taking steps like furloughing staff, delicensing vehicles etc but that is only reducing the pain. Saying things like "the government should do more" is all very laudable and they're doing a huge amount (like underwriting 80% of wages) but virtually every sector is under the cosh, whether that's airlines, non food retail, hospitality etc.
This is the thing that shows that people missed what I said. Putting the timetables online is all good and well but if they don't suit the key workers who need them then they're no use whatsoever hence why actually finding out what people need is the only way to rectify that. I've mentioned the financial problems but First could make it better for themselves by taking what customers say on board way more and not just in this situation. It's been a problem for as long as I remember. Communication with the public when they're what you provide a service for has to be a top priority and it's never been for First. Everything I've said is with good intent and only because I want better for First in general. It's always tough but if you do the key things right then things will be as good as they can be.
First's app is another problematic area too. Bus timetables aren't updated at all but I can get the local train times off of it accurately no bother
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I'm sorry but this is just not right. What are you expecting? Some sort of consultation exercise? Please explain
What you're saying about the financial problems and how First could make it better for themselves is absolute rubbish. There are other operators, miles better than First or the other big groups, that are seeing passenger figures drop off a cliff. Firms are reporting drops of anywhere between 65% and 85% for last week - this week is even worse than that.
You say you understand about the financial impact on First. I really don't think you do get the enormity of what is happening to bus operators up and down the country.
Social media isn't hard to use in order to get what key workers need. Either use that or contact places directly to ask what staff would need. Again ignored my point. It's going to be bad regardless but First don't help themselves by not providing what would suit key workers best. If they did it reduces the impact slightly which is a good thing. Everyone is in damage limitation mode but you've got to do everything to limit that damage and First aren't.
I do understand it but if you don't believe me then that's not my issue as I've referenced it enough.
As for finding out what people need an example of it is Stagecoach doing it with their X51 at Eurocentral. They took feedback from businesses there to choose where to have it stop and when it was due there. It's possible to do if bus companies bother to do it