First Group: General Discussion

[Simon75]

FIRST BUYS LAKESIDE, ELLESMERE.​

FirstGroup announced the acquisition of Lakeside Group on Friday, a bus and coach operator based in Shropshire and Cheshire.

The FTSE 250 passenger transport operator said Lakeside, which operates under local brands including Lakeside Coaches, Merediths Coaches and AT Brown Coaches, manages a fleet of around 145 vehicles.

It focuses primarily on school and private hire contracts, along with some tours and local bus operations.

FirstGroup said the acquisition would complement its existing portfolio and support its strategy to expand its coaching business, particularly in the West Midlands.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/stock-m...stgroup-buys-shropshire-bus-operator-lakeside

So will it get attached to First Potteries (Stoke-on-Trent) ?

 

[Simon75]

That is undoubtedly a consideration for First with vulnerability in West and South Yorkshire especially. Even if they were successful in securing franchises (and let's face it, they're not franchises - they're operating contracts), the margins will be lower whilst the B2B coach market now provides better margins than local bus in any case.

It was just a wry observation on how things have changed.

Why did First go for Rochdale, if they wanted to abandon Great Manchester ?

 

[londonteacher]

Just a few observations from using buses in Dorset this week. I’m not sure if the solution or what buses would be ideal but on the X51, X53 and X54 routes buses really struggled with the steep inclines to and from the coast. A variety of bus models were travelled on experiencing this including E400s, E400MMCs, Gemini 2s (I think). Is this a case of all buses would struggle or is there a better solution?

 

[Volvodart]

One of the First Yutong electric double decker U11DD's is to be on display later this month at Euro Bus Expo - photos are included in the heading to the article.

Pelican pushing ahead with plans - Bus & Coach Buyer

Pelican Bus and Coach called a pre-show briefing to update the market with the latest news, including a burgeoning order book and a new 14m coach

www.busandcoachbuyer.com

-----
New post 6/11/2024 below
First Bus signs five-year deal with FlixBus as they partner to launch new UK coach services
Milestone partnership for rapidly growing FlixBus and transport industry leaders First Bus
21 new vehicles operating on eight routes, stretching across England

First Bus signs five-year deal with FlixBus as they partner to launch new UK coach services | First Bus UK News

Milestone partnership for rapidly growing FlixBus and transport industry leaders First Bus 21 new vehicles operating on eight routes, stretching across England New partnership will create 65 employment opportunities as part of First Bus’ growth strategy

news.firstbus.co.uk

New partnership will create 65 employment opportunities as part of First Bus’ growth strategy
London, UK - 06 November 2024 – First Bus, one of the UK’s leading bus operators and global travel tech company FlixBus today announce a new five-year partnership, bringing eight new or expanded FlixBus coach routes across the UK next year - another move that signals First Bus’ commitment to growing the business and diversifying its services.

The diversification and growth opportunity comes from FlixBus, a brand which has already provided over five million passengers with affordable, sustainable coach travel since its launch in the UK in 2021.

The fast-growing company will double its UK network size by the end of summer of 2025, with over 200 FlixBus vehicles on the road, operated by its high-quality partners.

The addition of First Bus will significantly boost FlixBus' daily services across the South-West of England and expand routes in northern cities including Leeds, Manchester, and Newcastle. First Bus depots in Bath, Bristol, Slough, Taunton, Truro, Weston-super-Mare and in Yorkshire will operate services.

Andrew Jarvis, Chief Operating Officer for First Bus comments: “The new partnership with FlixBus marks another significant milestone in growing the First Bus B2B operation and we’re excited to serve further regions in the UK, helping to make longer distance travel easier.

“This new contract will create around 70 jobs and strengthen our national footprint as we renew our presence in the contract express coach market segment.’

Andreas Schorling, FlixBus Managing Director UK comments: “Three years ago we set out to be the market leader in the UK. We’ve experienced unprecedented passenger demand and strong commercial success, and, as we onboard operators like First Bus, market leadership is becoming inevitable.

“This is a golden era for coach travel where new modern, comfortable vehicles provide an enjoyable experience that passengers love. This is a renaissance for coach travel, and we see record numbers of people trying and returning to FlixBus.”

FlixBus-Logo-white-on-green (1)
FlixBus and First Bus will make significant investments in the partnership, with FlixBus continuing to increase brand engagement and awareness of the new services.

As part of the investment in the partnership, First Bus is purchasing 21 Yutong GT12 express coaches, with plans to recruit 65 new drivers across seven First Bus depots in three regions. A dedicated manager and supervisor will oversee the operations, boosting employment opportunities in those regions.

The new routes span across the country and will launch from spring 2025. Under the contract, First Bus will provide staff, all vehicle-related requirements and service delivery. FlixBus will provide the platform for passengers, offering value for money, and best-in-class customer experience. The coaches will be branded in the full FlixBus livery, including uniform for the drivers.

Coach travel plays an essential role in the economy: according to a KPMG report commissioned by the Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT), coach services have a multi-billion-pound economic impact on the UK, with one additional coach visiting a destination daily generating £1 million in economic value yearly[1].

 

[voidwxrranty]

One of the First Yutong electric double decker U11DD's is to be on display later this month at Euro Bus Expo - photos are included in the heading to the article.

Pelican pushing ahead with plans - Bus & Coach Buyer

Pelican Bus and Coach called a pre-show briefing to update the market with the latest news, including a burgeoning order book and a new 14m coach

www.busandcoachbuyer.com

-----
New post 6/11/2024 below
First Bus signs five-year deal with FlixBus as they partner to launch new UK coach services
Milestone partnership for rapidly growing FlixBus and transport industry leaders First Bus
21 new vehicles operating on eight routes, stretching across England

First Bus signs five-year deal with FlixBus as they partner to launch new UK coach services | First Bus UK News

Milestone partnership for rapidly growing FlixBus and transport industry leaders First Bus 21 new vehicles operating on eight routes, stretching across England New partnership will create 65 employment opportunities as part of First Bus’ growth strategy

news.firstbus.co.uk

capitalising on the demise of Megabus. NatX is also capitalising on it.

 

[richw]

A good choice of vehicle in my opinion. Yutong products are vastly superior to anything ADL or Wrightbus. I’ve travelled on a few yutongs recently and they’ve appeared well built with no rattles. Drivers have been complimentary when I’ve asked what they’re like to drive.

 

[voidwxrranty]

A good choice of vehicle in my opinion. Yutong products are vastly superior to anything ADL or Wrightbus. I’ve travelled on a few yutongs recently and they’ve appeared well built with no rattles. Drivers have been complimentary when I’ve asked what they’re like to drive.

GT12's from what ive heard have little to no leg-room for those of average or above height.

 

[richw]

GT12's from what ive heard have little to no leg-room for those of average or above height.

That’ll be down to how it’s specified by the company ordering them, and cramming the maximum number of seats in, and can’t be attributed to the manufacturer

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A good choice of vehicle in my opinion. Yutong products are vastly superior to anything ADL or Wrightbus. I’ve travelled on a few yutongs recently and they’ve appeared well built with no rattles. Drivers have been complimentary when I’ve asked what they’re like to drive.

Chatting with a mate, he is of a similar view. The vehicles are better built than ADL, and the ergonomics and driver enhancements are well ahead of the competition.

As a passenger, I've found Yutongs to be better built (if a little austere, even with operator specific seating), better than Wright and a country mile ahead of ADL.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

GT12's from what ive heard have little to no leg-room for those of average or above height.

I am 6ft 4 and have no issues with the ones I have used

 

[F Great Eastern]

A good choice of vehicle in my opinion. Yutong products are vastly superior to anything ADL or Wrightbus. I’ve travelled on a few yutongs recently and they’ve appeared well built with no rattles. Drivers have been complimentary when I’ve asked what they’re like to drive.

Not quite sure why we're comparing companies who make buses with companies who make coaches, they are entirley different things.

A 12.2m coach with 53 seats is pretty tight, especially if they have toilets. A standard 12.6m coach is usually 53 seats without toilets and centre exit.

 

[cactustwirly]

Chatting with a mate, he is of a similar view. The vehicles are better built than ADL, and the ergonomics and driver enhancements are well ahead of the competition.

As a passenger, I've found Yutongs to be better built (if a little austere, even with operator specific seating), better than Wright and a country mile ahead of ADL.

I've never found ADL products to be well built, they have a lot of rattles. All style no substance, Wright products are better.

 

[richw]

Not quite sure why we're comparing companies who make buses with companies who make coaches, they are entirley different things.

A 12.2m coach with 53 seats is pretty tight, especially if they have toilets. A standard 12.6m coach is usually 53 seats without toilets and centre exit.

Yutong make buses too. Their bus build quality is vastly superior to ADLs.

ADL make coaches (although they’re suspending building them once the order book is completed)

 

[vla50]

How are the repowered Streetdecks looking/ticking along? I wonder when we'll see the first ones on the street in Norwich, Leeds, Portsmouth, Leicester etc.

 

[Robertj21a]

How are the repowered Streetdecks looking/ticking along? I wonder when we'll see the first ones on the street in Norwich, Leeds, Portsmouth, Leicester etc.

I thought the one at Leicester had been out in service for a few weeks now?

 

[Edvid]

70102 / OIG 1792 (formerly 35146 / SN65 OMP) has carried passengers around Leicester since mid-November. No sign of any others yet.

 

[Volvodart]

The individual First bus companies websites have been updated to the new colour scheme, but they are not using the controversial new logo. The bus that was carrying it for publicity has had it removed.

 

[fgwrich]

How are the repowered Streetdecks looking/ticking along? I wonder when we'll see the first ones on the street in Norwich, Leeds, Portsmouth, Leicester etc.

70102 / OIG 1792 (formerly 35146 / SN65 OMP) has carried passengers around Leicester since mid-November. No sign of any others yet.

Meanwhile Portsmouth has just put one of its ex Leeds Diesel Streetdecks into service, so I wonder how far in the queue they are for the repowered vehicles.

 

[Volvodart]

Meanwhile Portsmouth has just put one of its ex Leeds Diesel Streetdecks into service, so I wonder how far in the queue they are for the repowered vehicles.

All the ones on order are expected in this financial year ending March 2025.

 

[Robertj21a]

How are the repowered Streetdecks looking/ticking along? I wonder when we'll see the first ones on the street in Norwich, Leeds, Portsmouth, Leicester etc.

They are certainly taking a surprising amount of time to reappear.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

From the allocation updates supplied by Tony Hunter monthly (on his WMbuses in Photographs site https://wmbusphotos.com/), the following are allocated/renumbered so far. Numbering convention appears to be: 701xx NewPower prototypes, 702xx Equipmake prototype, 710xx NewPower production). 70101/02 are at their respective depots (70102 in regular service), 70201 was at Ensign last time I saw it reported, and 71001-04 are not yet delivered to Hoeford to my knowledge, so have been reallocated "on paper" in advance.

70101 OIG1791 35112 Leeds Bramley
70102 OIG1792 35156 Leicester
70201 OIG1790 35201 Norwich
71001 CMZ5301 35152 Hoeford
71002 CMZ5302 35108 Hoeford
71003 CMZ5303 35161 Hoeford
71004 CMZ5304 35155 Hoeford

Of the remainder, Norwich appear to be due six (whether that includes 70201 I don't know), Leicester are due five more (understood to be 35188-92), Aberdeen are due twelve, and Leeds Bramley the remainder (I think three more, from the 32 NewPower + 1 Equipmake).

 

[vla50]

From the allocation updates supplied by Tony Hunter monthly (on his WMbuses in Photographs site https://wmbusphotos.com/), the following are allocated/renumbered so far. Numbering convention appears to be: 701xx NewPower prototypes, 702xx Equipmake prototype, 710xx NewPower production). 70101/02 are at their respective depots (70102 in regular service), 70201 was at Ensign last time I saw it reported, and 71001-04 are not yet delivered to Hoeford to my knowledge, so have been reallocated "on paper" in advance.

70101 OIG1791 35112 Leeds Bramley
70102 OIG1792 35156 Leicester
70201 OIG1790 35201 Norwich
71001 CMZ5301 35152 Hoeford
71002 CMZ5302 35108 Hoeford
71003 CMZ5303 35161 Hoeford
71004 CMZ5304 35155 Hoeford

Of the remainder, Norwich appear to be due six (whether that includes 70201 I don't know), Leicester are due five more (understood to be 35188-92), Aberdeen are due twelve, and Leeds Bramley the remainder (I think three more, from the 32 NewPower + 1 Equipmake).

I suspect 35200 might be one of those due for Norwich. Are the SL16s at Hunslet not being converted?

 

[aswilliamsuk]

They appear to be picking specific vehicles (certainly some that needed engine replacement appear to be part of the programme). Not sure on 35200, but 35119/23/24 are in progress as well to my knowledge.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

They appear to be picking specific vehicles (certainly some that needed engine replacement appear to be part of the programme). Not sure on 35200, but 35119/23/24 are in progress as well to my knowledge.

Think of all the low height E400s Glasgow could have converted to electric instead of discarding them.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Think of all the low height E400s Glasgow could have converted to electric instead of discarding them.

Not really achievable. The repowering of Streetdecks is a relatively new development so the hybrids would only have been repowered with euro VI. These are vehicles that are now 13/14 years old so certainly not viable to convert (and not certain that an e400mmc has been repowered in that way let alone an e400).

I don't know the height of the lowheight Streetdecks that Potteries and Ipswich have; they MIGHT be an option but I have a nagging thought that they may be 13'10 which wouldn't be short enough.

 

[voidwxrranty]

Not really achievable. The repowering of Streetdecks is a relatively new development so the hybrids would only have been repowered with euro VI. These are vehicles that are now 13/14 years old so certainly not viable to convert (and not certain that an e400mmc has been repowered in that way let alone an e400).

I don't know the height of the lowheight Streetdecks that Potteries and Ipswich have; they MIGHT be an option but I have a nagging thought that they may be 13'10 which wouldn't be short enough.

yes. their 13’ 10. the batch that came from York was originally intended for First Scotland East for the UL service due to a low bridge on route.

 

[Volvodart]

The individual First bus companies websites have been updated to the new colour scheme, but they are not using the controversial new logo. The bus that was carrying it for publicity has had it removed.

The change is not happening until 9 December 2024 according to this email.

Got a minute? The world doesn’t stop moving, does it? It’s no different here at First Bus. Every journey you make means a lot to us, which is why we’ve been on our own journey too. In the last few years, we’re proud to have invested over £250m into zero-emission buses for our communities and environment across the UK. We’ve been transforming your digital travel experience too, with app developments to help you get around. We’re continuing to use AI technology to review and improve our services for you, each day. These changes are shaped by you. We’ll continue to listen, improve our customer service, and focus on the things that you told us make the biggest difference.

To mark the next phase in our journey, we’re refreshing the look and feel of the First Bus brand, so we’ll start to look and sound a little different. You’ll begin to see more of this out in the wild from the 9th December. These changes are about improving the way we show up for you, and your local community. To celebrate, we’re launching a campaign that honours local heroes and shines a light on the role buses play in connecting people, reducing congestion and improving air quality. We can’t wait to share it with you. You can still find all the info you might need about your buses in the same places – on our website, app, and social media channels – they’ll just start to look a bit different from the 9th December. Thanks for the catch-up, we’ll see you on board. First Bus

 

[Leyland Bus]

The change is not happening until 9 December 2024 according to this email.

No firm does "guff" quite as well as FirstBus

 

[Park47515]

The individual First bus companies websites have been updated to the new colour scheme, but they are not using the controversial new logo. The bus that was carrying it for publicity has had it removed.

And oddly despite all of the services now being Bee Network branded, they still have a Greater Manchester page

 

[vla50]

Saw a comment recently on Facebook stating that the Streetdecks converted to EV for Leicester mightn’t be used on the BHX5 due to them not apparently tackling the route particularly well (assuming they tested 70102), any truth to this?