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First Group order AT300 for East Coast open access operation

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47421

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Mod Note: Post #1 originally in this thread.

the First Group all standard ORCATS raid 5 TPD KX-Edinburgh due to start by May 2021, but dont think they have ordered the trains yet, so seems unlikely

https://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/eastcoast.aspx

Just seen a tweet @railpromag saying FirstGroup has confirmed an order for five new Hitachi AT300s, so looks like this service will happen

https://www.railpro.co.uk/news/firs...igh-speed-trains-linking-london-and-edinburgh

FirstGroup and Hitachi announce new partnership for high speed trains linking London and Edinburgh

A new high-quality, low fare rail link between London and Edinburgh has come a step closer for customers with news that FirstGroup has confirmed an order for five brand new AT300 125mph intercity electric trains and ongoing maintenance, following completion yesterday of a £100 million deal for the trains between FirstGroup and Hitachi Rail, financed by Beacon Rail.

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irish_rail

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Interesting the article says an extra 400 seats per train. The gwr 5 car IETs hold about 320 so if the above is correct these new ones could be rather cosy!! Maybe no tables and reduced legroom???
 

ainsworth74

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The gwr 5 car IETs hold about 320 so if the above is correct these new ones could be rather cosy!! Maybe no tables and reduced legroom???

No first class and no massive kitchen would do it I suspect without significant changes to seating layout or number of tables.
 

Mikey C

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Interestingly the artist's impression shows doors at thirds.

The drawing on the First east coast page page looks like a normal 80X?

https://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/eastcoast.aspx

east-coast-2.jpg
 

Martin222002

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No first class and no massive kitchen would do it I suspect without significant changes to seating layout or number of tables.
Well a quick bit of maths using the same seating layout as GWR but all standard class with no kitchen and two wheelchair spaces only gives a total of 368 seats (56+88+88+88+48), which is quite a way off the 400 seat figure First Group are boasting.
 

Bletchleyite

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I haven't seen a 'tweet' but an artist's impression I have just seen in another source suggests it is based on a Javelin rather than 800-series.

The snout does look rather Javelin-esque, but it does look like the 26m vehicles of the 800-series rather than the 20m ones of the Javelin.
 

Bletchleyite

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Well a quick bit of maths using the same seating layout as GWR but all standard class with no kitchen and two wheelchair spaces only gives a total of 368 seats (56+88+88+88+48), which is quite a way off the 400 seat figure First Group are boasting.

GWR's layout is quite low density (legroom in regular airline seats is roughly the same as priority seats in most other stock) so there probably is scope for a bit more cramming in.
 

DelW

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Will FirstGroup (sic) consider extending the "high-quality, low fare" concept to their other TOCs? It would be a radical change, so I'm not holding my breath...
 

Ih8earlies

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DPTS on the TPE Nova 1 with an accessible toilet (but no wheelchair space) is 56 seats.
MS on the TPE Nova 1 is 86 to 88 seats depending upon layout.
DPTF on the TPE Nova 1 has 24 seats, 2 wheelchair spaces an accessible toilet and Kitchen area.

Are the DPTx vehicles available without an accessible toilet? What other vehicle configurations are Hitachi offering?
 

ainsworth74

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Are the DPTx vehicles available without an accessible toilet? What other vehicle configurations are Hitachi offering?

Pretty much whatever your heart desires. Part of the IEP Train Technical Specification was that interiors should be modular and configurable to operators requirements so I wouldn't expect it to be an issue.
 

jh64

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I haven't seen a 'tweet' but an artist's impression I have just seen in another source suggests it is based on a Javelin rather than 800-series.

The CG renders for the Hull Trains had the nose-side protrusions too, but the actual units being built don't. It'll almost certainly be identical for these.
 

hwl

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Do Hitachi have a modular concept like Stadler? If so, it'll be "unplug the engine, plug in the battery pack, away you go".
Yes the engine cooler group and fuel tank are all on an easily removable raft for easy swap and servicing as well as vibration isolation.
 

ainsworth74

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They are having a buffet like LNER though. In the LNER sets that costs 16 seats.

Are they? I've always been under the impression it'll likely be a trolley service perhaps with a small galley at one end for hot snacks/water and storage (think Voyager style). Certainly the stuff on the First Group website says "at-seat catering" which doesn't scream buffet to me!
 

43096

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Will FirstGroup (sic) consider extending the "high-quality, low fare" concept to their other TOCs? It would be a radical change, so I'm not holding my breath...
WorstGroup specialise in “low-quality, high fare” don’t they?
 

hexagon789

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Are they? I've always been under the impression it'll likely be a trolley service perhaps with a small galley at one end for hot snacks/water and storage (think Voyager style). Certainly the stuff on the First Group website says "at-seat catering" which doesn't scream buffet to me!

I'm sure it was in the original press release when the open-access operations were first announced. Maybe they've dropped it then.
 

Starmill

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Quite a unique spec for such a small order
I think that is the whole point of the project. They are mainly modular and this easily configurable to whatever spec the customer wants. Replacing a diesel power pack and fuel tank with batteries is likely to be a smart move. Cheaper, lower in mass and close to just as good. I always thought the diesel power pack in the 801s was a bit of an extravagance. How often will it ever be used? Presumably 10 years from now it would be easy enough to make this change to the 801s too if that were what the customer requested.
 

Master29

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How do we know it`s going to be 5 car trains as it doesn`t say? if it`s 400 seats in one class and a buffet configuration surely more than likely a 6 car?
 

Darandio

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How do we know it`s going to be 5 car trains as it doesn`t say? if it`s 400 seats in one class and a buffet configuration surely more than likely a 6 car?

It does say. The FirstGroup press release states:

Hitachi will build the five electric intercity trains of five carriages each
 
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400 seats seems like a lot for a 5 car EMU doesn't it? That would mean and average of 80 seats per coach.
 

ainsworth74

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400 seats seems like a lot for a 5 car EMU doesn't it? That would mean and average of 80 seats per coach.

26m vehicles remember and I believe the GWR and LNER units have around 86 seats per vehicles (at least the ones that don't have universal access toilets and buffets fitted).
 
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26m vehicles remember and I believe the GWR and LNER units have around 86 seats per vehicles (at least the ones that don't have universal access toilets and buffets fitted).

You seem to know what you are talking about so i will ask you this. Are they actually going to have 26m carrages as you say because the current Class 395 Javelins are only 20m? These current units have 340 seats. Are these a completely custom build or is it just another Javelin order.
 
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