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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

Busaholic

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Unidentified Mousehole Solo on the A1 this morning, with another (possibly same one) on last 16 journey of the afternoon.
 
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MB162435

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Trident 33002 on T1/T2 duties today, currently on its final working of the day the 19:35 T1 service from Truro to Camborne
 

carlberry

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42871 SN53KKA now on the X5. That's the Carmel coaches X5 in Bristol however! Still in full Barbie with Kernow vinyls!
 

Temple Meads

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First Kernow not selling/accepting Ride Cornwall until further notice: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2434669173262458&id=630732460322814&sfnsn=mo

Ride Cornwall.
Despite having agreed a new set of prices and conditions for Ride Cornwall with partner bus operators and GWR a considerable time ago, rail operators are still not able to implement these changes.

As a result, we have had to take the unwelcome decision to suspend our participation in Ride Cornwall until such time as the rail operators can implement these long planned changes.

We are therefore unable to sell or accept any Ride Cornwall tickets from 26th May 2019 until further notice.

We are hopeful that the implementation of the changes can be made by the rail operators as soon as possible, at which point we will be able to sell and accept Ride Cornwall tickets once again.
 

embers25

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First Kernow not selling/accepting Ride Cornwall until further notice: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2434669173262458&id=630732460322814&sfnsn=mo

Given the Ride Cornwall costs less than the massively overpriced First Kernow Day Tickets (before railcard discounts) that aren't valid on the trains, I assume First are insisting on huge fare rises. The interesting part is that the bus operator who is First are blaming the rail operator who is First.
 

83G/84D

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Dart 42874 soldiers on, I saw it on service 47 this afternoon.
 

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TheGrandWazoo

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Given the Ride Cornwall costs less than the massively overpriced First Kernow Day Tickets (before railcard discounts) that aren't valid on the trains, I assume First are insisting on huge fare rises. The interesting part is that the bus operator who is First are blaming the rail operator who is First.

Did you read the announcement in a rush?

The price rises have been agreed with GWR, it says “rail operators are still not able to implement the changes“ - laying the blame at the door of the RDG?
 

richw

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Ride cornwall is arguably massively underpriced, to look at some individual fares really shows this:

Plymouth to Penzance return £11.10 (rail)

Padstow to Newquay return £9.00 (first bus)

Liskeard to wadebridge return £9.xx (pcb, sorry can’t remember the exact pence)

The £13 is split 4 ways presumable, GWR, XC, pcb, First Kernow?
 

embers25

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Ride cornwall is arguably massively underpriced, to look at some individual fares really shows this:

Plymouth to Penzance return £11.10 (rail)

Padstow to Newquay return £9.00 (first bus)

Liskeard to wadebridge return £9.xx (pcb, sorry can’t remember the exact pence)

The £13 is split 4 ways presumable, GWR, XC, pcb, First Kernow?

In most cases now a long distance return on a bus is the same price as a day ticket so actually the pricing is in line with industry norms. For example the multi operator Devon Day ticket is £9 and many returns on Stagcoach are £8+. £13 is actually expensive for a bus and train day ticket compared to anywhere else nationwide bar north Scotland. Price it much higher and noone travels. The other thing with the announcement is that it doesn't just imply fare increases it mentions other restrictions being agreed which on top of a fare rise which will likely reduce usefulness. As for being split 4 ways, don't operators usually just keep the revenue of the ones they sell (explorers worked that way), which may mean First kernow are concerned that with the increased train services in Cornwall that more will be sold now on rail not bus hitting their revenue?
 

richw

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don't operators usually just keep the revenue of the ones they sell

I don’t know how it’s split. But if that’s the case I’ve never seen a bus issued Ride Cornwall. Only rail issued examples, most of which have had railcard discount as well.
 

embers25

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I don’t know how it’s split. But if that’s the case I’ve never seen a bus issued Ride Cornwall. Only rail issued examples, most of which have had railcard discount as well.
Me either actually which makes you wonder why First Kernow chose now not earlier, except obviously due to the increased train service. Whatever the reasons, its incredibly poor to make the change on the Sunday of a Bank Holiday Weekend where tourists buy one on Saturday and then buy another on Monday and find they can no longer use it. Particularly as GWR and Cornwall haven't updated their websites to warn of the change. Cornwal I can understand but GWr have no excuse being part of First. I'm also wondering if the new "conditions" will restrict rail travel from Plymouth somehow thereby increasing the likelihood of on bus purchase? The other thin to note is that one reason you don't see many bus issued ones is Plymouth Citybus and Kernow both do not promote the ticket at all. Any passenger boarding a Kernow bus is ALWAYS sold a Kernow day ticket despite it costing the same as the Ride Cornwall and the driver doesn't ever offer Ride Cornwall if asked the price of day tickets so obviously that must be a Kernow instructio to their staff.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Me either actually which makes you wonder why First Kernow chose now not earlier, except obviously due to the increased train service. Whatever the reasons, its incredibly poor to make the change on the Sunday of a Bank Holiday Weekend where tourists buy one on Saturday and then buy another on Monday and find they can no longer use it. Particularly as GWR and Cornwall haven't updated their websites to warn of the change. Cornwal I can understand but GWr have no excuse being part of First. I'm also wondering if the new "conditions" will restrict rail travel from Plymouth somehow thereby increasing the likelihood of on bus purchase? The other thin to note is that one reason you don't see many bus issued ones is Plymouth Citybus and Kernow both do not promote the ticket at all. Any passenger boarding a Kernow bus is ALWAYS sold a Kernow day ticket despite it costing the same as the Ride Cornwall and the driver doesn't ever offer Ride Cornwall if asked the price of day tickets so obviously that must be a Kernow instructio to their staff.

Sadly, First Kernow are reflective of many bus companies in not promoting multi operator tickets, as they adopt a commercial view of wishing to retain the revenue. I don't know if it's that drivers are actively instructed to offer the company product - it's usually cock up rather than conspiracy. I got a First vehicle in Wiltshire and I asked for a Wiltshire Day Rover and he issued me the First Day Ticket instead. Not knowing the costs, it was only on sitting down did I realise. Got to Salisbury and then got him to sort it out.

I don't know if £13 is that expensive for a rail and bus ticket across a large county. A two zone NWales Rover ticket is £13.80, whilst Derbyshire is £13.40
 

robbob700

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Me either actually which makes you wonder why First Kernow chose now not earlier, except obviously due to the increased train service. Whatever the reasons, its incredibly poor to make the change on the Sunday of a Bank Holiday Weekend
I imagine the change is being made this Sunday as the price of the Kernow Network 1-Day ticket increases to £15.00 that day.
 

embers25

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Sadly, First Kernow are reflective of many bus companies in not promoting multi operator tickets, as they adopt a commercial view of wishing to retain the revenue. I don't know if it's that drivers are actively instructed to offer the company product - it's usually cock up rather than conspiracy. I got a First vehicle in Wiltshire and I asked for a Wiltshire Day Rover and he issued me the First Day Ticket instead. Not knowing the costs, it was only on sitting down did I realise. Got to Salisbury and then got him to sort it out.

I don't know if £13 is that expensive for a rail and bus ticket across a large county. A two zone NWales Rover ticket is £13.80, whilst Derbyshire is £13.40
So £13, if not expensive, is at least reasonable compared with both those and the £15 Kernow goes up to for just the bus on Sunday is very expensive. (I forgot about the ludicrous £2 price increase for non-app payment on Sunday just in time to rip of tourists). Don't get me wrong, First Kernow have done an awful lot right compared to the rest of First, but their fares are insanely expensive on a level of Yorkshire Coastliner. They make Stagecoach SW seem bargain basement!
 

83G/84D

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Atlantic Coaster 33233 at the westbound bus stop at Crowlas a short while ago being recovered by Jose breakdown truck.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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So £13, if not expensive, is at least reasonable compared with both those and the £15 Kernow goes up to for just the bus on Sunday is very expensive. (I forgot about the ludicrous £2 price increase for non-app payment on Sunday just in time to rip of tourists). Don't get me wrong, First Kernow have done an awful lot right compared to the rest of First, but their fares are insanely expensive on a level of Yorkshire Coastliner. They make Stagecoach SW seem bargain basement!

So it's £15 on the bus (£13 as an m-ticket) vs the current £13/£12 respectively. Have to say that does look expensive. Be interested to understand how that will impact revenue vs. ridership. Coastliner has some unique issues that, in part, explain the issue of fares.
 

richw

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Any passenger boarding a Kernow bus is ALWAYS sold a Kernow day ticket despite it costing the same as the Ride Cornwall and the driver doesn't ever offer Ride Cornwall if asked the price of day tickets so obviously that must be a Kernow instructio to their staff.

No such instruction.
I’ve actually offered it and been rejected for a First Day on several occasions. A simple would you like the one that includes rail, and I've got a 100% no thanks!!!
I sold a nightrider for the first time this evening!
 

embers25

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No such instruction.
I’ve actually offered it and been rejected for a First Day on several occasions. A simple would you like the one that includes rail, and I've got a 100% no thanks!!!

Yes but as First Kernow do not publicise the Ride Cornwall in any way at all (except to say they are refusing to take it) most passengers would have no clue what the including rail ticket would be and would assume it was more expensive or had different validity and therefore stick to what they have seen on bus stops and in timetables. To me for single travellers it should not even be a question and as it is the same price with extended validity it should be issued every time automatically by drivers. Indeed First should not even sell their 1 day ticket (except for groups as its cheaper) and should only publicise Ride Cornwall. The only reason for selling their own day ticket is to try to rip off customers later who do use trains as that extra rail fare would bring in more money to the First corporate coffers.
 

Goldfish62

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So it's £15 on the bus (£13 as an m-ticket) vs the current £13/£12 respectively. Have to say that does look expensive. Be interested to understand how that will impact revenue vs. ridership. Coastliner has some unique issues that, in part, explain the issue of fares.
The pricing policy definitely favours period and multi day ticketing. For example the week ticket is £26 on app, £28 on bus, and the pack of five day tickets valid for six months is £30 (app only). Both of these offer disproportionately better value than the day ticket.

Another offer than can be very good value depending on your journeys is the town zone pack of six day tickets for £15.
 

khp516e

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Good Morning. Does anyone know what vehicles are being used on the Rail Replacement at St Erth?? TIA
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Any passenger boarding a Kernow bus is ALWAYS sold a Kernow day ticket despite it costing the same as the Ride Cornwall and the driver doesn't ever offer Ride Cornwall if asked the price of day tickets so obviously that must be a Kernow instructio to their staff.
Yes but as First Kernow do not publicise the Ride Cornwall in any way at all (except to say they are refusing to take it) most passengers would have no clue what the including rail ticket would be and would assume it was more expensive or had different validity and therefore stick to what they have seen on bus stops and in timetables. To me for single travellers it should not even be a question and as it is the same price with extended validity it should be issued every time automatically by drivers. Indeed First should not even sell their 1 day ticket (except for groups as its cheaper) and should only publicise Ride Cornwall. The only reason for selling their own day ticket is to try to rip off customers later who do use trains as that extra rail fare would bring in more money to the First corporate coffers.

It isn't an instruction clearly but by the same token, you are absolutely right. The lack of promotion by First Kernow makes it a fait accompli - people won't ask for it or want it if they don't know about it! The fact that they don't have any reference to Ride Cornwall anywhere is pretty poor given the fact that they are supposed to be working in partnership with Cornwall Council! It should be publicised by FK.

I don't actually mind the fact that First would have a cheaper, bus only product though. A bus only at £13 vs Ride Cornwall at, for instance, £17 would seem to be a fair price point. The £15 on bus option seems steep to my mind as I said, and again, I think you're probably optimistic in thinking that they are so smart as to be doing this in order to benefit the group's rail operations - they're just not that joined up :lol:
 

83G/84D

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I have heard today that the rail side of the Park and Ride alterations at St Erth railway station may not be completed on time.

There is a chance that the rail replacement service between Lelant Saltings and St Erth may continue longer than expected.
 

83G/84D

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Mousehole Solo 53704 worked the 0555 A17 Penzance to St Ives and 53709 worked the 0650 16 Penzance to St Ives. Open top Olympian 34137 is broken at Penzance depot.
 

Accelerator59

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Saw 33068 parked up in a lay-by broken down between Falmouth and Lanner with hazards on while on the way to Falmouth, then saw it being attended to on the way back.
 

83G/84D

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Does anyone know what is happening to the proposed tree looper 34258? It was in and out the workshops in Camborne recently but now just seems to be parked up. I am not on Facebook so can’t ask on the ‘behind the scenes’ page.

There are quite a few places that could do with some vegetation management.
 

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