First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[thameslink2000]

Can anyone tell me whether any of these have been withdrawn yet?
Kernow singles:
41383, 42235/55, 42430, 42469/70/71/72/73/75/77, 42521/2, 42719, 42801/2, 42843, 50276/8, 50284/5, 53001/7/9/12/13/14
Kernow doubles (Olympians, can't be bothered with anything else )
34041/50/51/52, 34137/8, 34162, 34172/3/7/81/2/3/4/5
Taunton/Bildgwater singles:
43821/2/3, 50277/9, 50291, 62193
Taunton/Bildgwater deckers:
34176/8/9

Have I missed any other non-DDA kit (apart from Tridents of course)?

Taunton Volvo Olympian 34176 was still in use on 19/12/15. Appeared in Tiverton on the 22, so had a ride to Uffculme on that

 

[Penwithian]

Now you come to mention it, almost all 17s deckers too - First did try to run it as one route for a while, but Summer traffic problems soon put paid to that.

Most 10's do become 17's at Penzance and vice versa, and being a resident on the 10 route, there has been more double deckers than single deckers lately, however, both my journeys to and from Penzance from Pendeen yesterday were worked by singles.
I observed 32878 today on the 10 just coming back from Morvah this wet morning.

 

[busconductors]

After a few days away, I want to return to Cornwall on Friday but it is impossible. I looked up the trains and there are trains I could catch but there are no buses except 101 to the Eden Project. If I catch a train, it is no use unless there are buses because I live in Bodmin. If I get a train to Plymouth I need to take the 11 and then 75 (not First Kernow). If I get a train to St Austell, I need to take the 27. If I go to Bodmin Parkway I need to get the 75 (Plymouth City not First Kernow). To take a taxi would cost the earth. Why not run a public holiday timetable tomorrow?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

After a few days away, I want to return to Cornwall on Friday but it is impossible. I looked up the trains and there are trains I could catch but there are no buses except 101 to the Eden Project. If I catch a train, it is no use unless there are buses because I live in Bodmin. If I get a train to Plymouth I need to take the 11 and then 75 (not First Kernow). If I get a train to St Austell, I need to take the 27. If I go to Bodmin Parkway I need to get the 75 (Plymouth City not First Kernow). To take a taxi would cost the earth. Why not run a public holiday timetable tomorrow?

Because there are few passengers so it's not commercially viable and Cornwall Council don't have the funds (or wish to spend it elsewhere)

 

[richw]

Because there are few passengers so it's not commercially viable and Cornwall Council don't have the funds (or wish to spend it elsewhere)

Cornwall council probably don't have the funds. The administrator's 6 month update for western greyhound states Cornwall council still owes the company approx £150000 in concession pass money, and the administrator is having no success collecting it.

Is demand really so low on New Year's Day? when I was in retail we were very busy in the afternoon once people's hangovers were worn off, maybe there is scope for services from say 11am onwards?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Cornwall council probably don't have the funds. The administrator's 6 month update for western greyhound states Cornwall council still owes the company approx £150000 in concession pass money, and the administrator is having no success collecting it.

Is demand really so low on New Year's Day? when I was in retail we were very busy in the afternoon once people's hangovers were worn off, maybe there is scope for services from say 11am onwards?

In Bodmin...on New Years Day? I'd suggest it's low. I recall that First have tried to run services in the Wells area on New Years before and have walked away from it (and those are much stronger services with existing Sunday services).

There are undoubtedly people out and about but in the numbers and the concentration to make services viable....not in many areas and especially outside major conurbations.

As regards Cornwall Council, is it that there's a dispute in payment between what they think is owed and what the administrator is claiming? I think they're ok for the cash!

 

[richw]

As regards Cornwall Council, is it that there's a dispute in payment between what they think is owed and what the administrator is claiming? I think they're ok for the cash!

There is no dispute mentioned in the report- other disputes are clearly mentioned as disputes.

 

[83G/84D]

Cornwall council probably don't have the funds. The administrator's 6 month update for western greyhound states Cornwall council still owes the company approx £150000 in concession pass money, and the administrator is having no success collecting it.

Is demand really so low on New Year's Day? when I was in retail we were very busy in the afternoon once people's hangovers were worn off, maybe there is scope for services from say 11am onwards?

I though First Kernow would run the same service as on Boxing Day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Olympian 34138 just passed me at Penzance on the 1245 Penzance to Helston Tesco. I'm hoping it then does 1336 Helston Tesco to Penzance and 1445 Penzance to Helston Tesco and 1536 return to Penzance as I shall go on it later if it does!

 

[Goldfish62]

Because there are few passengers so it's not commercially viable and Cornwall Council don't have the funds (or wish to spend it elsewhere)

I doubt that if First Kernow thought it viable to operate on Boxing Day. It's business as usual on public transport in many parts of the country today.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I doubt that if First Kernow thought it viable to operate on Boxing Day. It's business as usual on public transport in many parts of the country today.

In Bodmin.......?? That's what the guy was asking and I don't think that particular town will have trade to make it viable

 

[busconductors]

In Bodmin.......?? That's what the guy was asking and I don't think that particular town will have trade to make it viable

There is no Poundland, 99p Store, nor Aldi in Bodmin. There are people who travel to St Austell to take advantage of cheaper stores (especially worthwhile for those with concessionary passes). No doubt St Austell stores are open for part of the day, today, a bank holiday. Also some Bodmin people are fans of Trago Mills and Plymouth shops. There are people working at Roche Victoria service station and industrial park who may need to get to work on a bank holiday. There are those wanting to travel by train, like me, and then take a bus. The number 27 passes through a number of villages between Bodmin and St Austell. In particular a lot of people get on at Bugle to go shopping in St Austell. In Bodmin people tend to not go anywhere by bus on Sundays and bank holidays because they are used to the idea that there is no or few opportunities to go anywhere by public transport. People use it once they know it is possible. I used to have an evening job in St Austell and I took it because I knew there was a late night bus from St Austell back to Bodmin. Just my luck First stopped running the late night bus (this was about 12 years ago). Because of lack of public transport, I had to buy a car to get to and from work!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There is no Poundland, 99p Store, nor Aldi in Bodmin. There are people who travel to St Austell to take advantage of cheaper stores (especially worthwhile for those with concessionary passes). No doubt St Austell stores are open for part of the day, today, a bank holiday. Also some Bodmin people are fans of Trago Mills and Plymouth shops. There are people working at Roche Victoria service station and industrial park who may need to get to work on a bank holiday. There are those wanting to travel by train, like me, and then take a bus. The number 27 passes through a number of villages between Bodmin and St Austell. In particular a lot of people get on at Bugle to go shopping in St Austell. In Bodmin people tend to not go anywhere by bus on Sundays and bank holidays because they are used to the idea that there is no or few opportunities to go anywhere by public transport. People use it once they know it is possible. I used to have an evening job in St Austell and I took it because I knew there was a late night bus from St Austell back to Bodmin. Just my luck First stopped running the late night bus (this was about 12 years ago). Because of lack of public transport, I had to buy a car to get to and from work!

A wonderful theory but I've been in Snozzell for the last two NYDs and it was dead as a doornail with very little open.

 

[richw]

Down here at Redruth only Tesco Extra and Morrisons are open. Both are dead quiet. McDonalds though was very busy. Unlike Boxing day when we had a service and shops were open nowhere is open today so no retail shopping to be done to get people needing buses in worthwhile numbers.
Added to the fact most people don't return to work until Monday so people travelling back from Christmas over the weekend rather than today.

 

[fgwrich]

Down here at Redruth only Tesco Extra and Morrisons are open. Both are dead quiet. McDonalds though was very busy. Unlike Boxing day when we had a service and shops were open nowhere is open today so no retail shopping to be done to get people needing buses in worthwhile numbers.
Added to the fact most people don't return to work until Monday so people travelling back from Christmas over the weekend rather than today.

I'm not in Cornwall (unfortunately) but I can agree with you. The place I work in here in Hampshire is attached to a shopping centre. We were open. Most of the shops in the Centre were closed. I think you can rather guess how my 8 hours went today. Little bit of kitchen work completed, Rugby World Magazine for a good part of my day! New Years Day isn't busy, anywhere, with the possible exception of London.

 

[Busaholic]

Penzance is blessed/cursed (delete according to taste) with three supermarkets on its Eastern outskirts, and all three were open today. I visited two of them, and Tesco was quiet but Sainsbury a little busier. With it being a filthy day weatherwise I expect a fair few people will have schlepped to Marks and Spencer at Hayle only to find it closed!It's not so long since all supermarkets were closed on both Boxing Day and New Year's Day, and personally I'd not be averse to that situation returning.

 

[Whiteway215]

The bus at Taunton is 33099 which as Mr SW says is a Trident ex South Yorkshire.

B7TL 32099 is the bus reported on its way to Bristol.

South Yorkshire Bus Forum quotes 33079/82/83 are due to head this way.

 

[Busaholic]

Cornwall council probably don't have the funds. The administrator's 6 month update for western greyhound states Cornwall council still owes the company approx £150000 in concession pass money, and the administrator is having no success collecting it.

Do you perchance have a link for this, please?
This whole subject is one that holds great interest for me, both in a general sense and specifically pertaining to WG and its relationship with CC. I am assuming most of this disputed/non-disputed reimbursement dates to ownership under the old regime.
On a more general point, I may not have the funds to pay Council Tax and Business Rates to Cornwall Council, but it does not absolve me from my 'debt' and they'd soon make me appear at Camborne Magistrates Court!

EDIT. Apologies, just seen the link in the WG thread, which I hadn't spotted. A cup of tea and an interesting read beckons.

 

[Goldfish62]

Penzance is blessed/cursed (delete according to taste) with three supermarkets on its Eastern outskirts, and all three were open today. I visited two of them, and Tesco was quiet but Sainsbury a little busier. With it being a filthy day weatherwise I expect a fair few people will have schlepped to Marks and Spencer at Hayle only to find it closed!It's not so long since all supermarkets were closed on both Boxing Day and New Year's Day, and personally I'd not be averse to that situation returning.

I was surprised how many shops were open in Penzance and Sainsburys had what must have been at least 100 cars parked there in the morning. Not running any buses at all makes it appear to be a marginal transport mode.

I'm glad shops were open. I had to get my disabled dad some emergency care supplies from Boots.

 

[busconductors]

Down here at Redruth only Tesco Extra and Morrisons are open. Both are dead quiet. McDonalds though was very busy. Unlike Boxing day when we had a service and shops were open nowhere is open today so no retail shopping to be done to get people needing buses in worthwhile numbers.
Added to the fact most people don't return to work until Monday so people travelling back from Christmas over the weekend rather than today.

richw - you said "no retail shopping for people to be needing buses"

Or perhaps the reverse is true - buses not running, customers cannot get to the shops, so shop managers have decided there will be insufficient customers to make it worthwhile for them to open since a lot of people won't be vable to get to the shops?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

richw - you said "no retail shopping for people to be needing buses"

Or perhaps the reverse is true - buses not running, customers cannot get to the shops, so shop managers have decided there will be insufficient customers to make it worthwhile for them to open since a lot of people won't be vable to get to the shops?

Given that the vast, vast majority of customers to retail parks and town centre shops travel by car (irrespective of whether buses run or not), then fair to say the demand to open just isn't there.

 

[Busaholic]

I was surprised how many shops were open in Penzance and Sainsburys had what must have been at least 100 cars parked there in the morning. Not running any buses at all makes it appear to be a marginal transport mode.

I'm glad shops were open. I had to get my disabled dad some emergency care supplies from Boots.

It's a regrettable fact that so many shops in Penzance are struggling to survive, partly because of the crass decision to allow three major supermarkets just outside the town centre, that some will open all hours in desperation, as there's nothing extra in rent and rates to pay for doing so. It just means the minimum-wage staff get less of a break at a time when the majority would value it.


Back to buses. Unibus-liveried Dennis Enviro on the 18 today ex-Penzance, something I've not seen before.

 

[busconductors]

It's a regrettable fact that so many shops in Penzance are struggling to survive, partly because of the crass decision to allow three major supermarkets just outside the town centre, that some will open all hours in desperation, as there's nothing extra in rent and rates to pay for doing so. It just means the minimum-wage staff get less of a break at a time when the majority would value it.


Back to buses. Unibus-liveried Dennis Enviro on the 18 today ex-Penzance, something I've not seen before.

I think what Cornwall needs is a bus celebration day or a bus celebration week to highlight all the good things about bus transport.

It is a vicious circle - people buy cars because public transport is so woeful, and bus companies run less and less buses because there are not enough passengers. And then people use cars because there are less buses. And so on ad infinitum..

 

[Goldfish62]

I think what Cornwall needs is a bus celebration day or a bus celebration week to highlight all the good things about bus transport.

It is a vicious circle - people buy cars because public transport is so woeful, and bus companies run less and less buses because there are not enough passengers. And then people use cars because there are less buses. And so on ad infinitum..

Completely agree. Cornwall does need to start shouting more about its buses - the network is far better than many other rural locations.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Completely agree. Cornwall does need to start shouting more about its buses - the network is far better than many other rural locations.

Are First not doing their January sales in Kernow?

 

[richw]

I think what Cornwall needs is a bus celebration day or a bus celebration week to highlight all the good things about bus transport.

It is a vicious circle - people buy cars because public transport is so woeful, and bus companies run less and less buses because there are not enough passengers. And then people use cars because there are less buses. And so on ad infinitum..

We have a decent service for the rural area we are in. People still live off past reputation.

Are First not doing their January sales in Kernow?

Not seen anything. The only offer I've seen is kids go free at weekends has been extended to the end of January now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

We have a decent service for the rural area we are in. People still live off past reputation.




Not seen anything. The only offer I've seen is kids go free at weekends has been extended to the end of January now.

Ah....that's the one promotion that Kernow are doing

http://www.firstgroup.com/about-us/news/first-bus-just-ticket-cheaper-fares-january-sales

The sins of the past are difficult to overcome. First declined badly from the late 1990s with a selection of dodgy cascades and network revisions. More recently, the Western Greyhound debacle (missing journeys, evening suspensions) adds to that perception for some.

Hopefully there will be some settled operation, service innovation and investment into the fleet during 2016 (new vehicles, better cascades) and that will help ridership

 

[Busaholic]

[QUOT
Olympian 34138 just passed me at Penzance on the 1245 Penzance to Helston Tesco. I'm hoping it then does 1336 Helston Tesco to Penzance and 1445 Penzance to Helston Tesco and 1536 return to Penzance as I shall go on it later if it does![/QUOTE]

I can vouch for 34138's turn of speed, as it was the bus on today's last no 1 journey from Land's End which almost got me crossing the road at Greenmarket tonight. I'm not so nimble as I once was.

 

[richw]

richw - you said "no retail shopping for people to be needing buses"

Or perhaps the reverse is true - buses not running, customers cannot get to the shops, so shop managers have decided there will be insufficient customers to make it worthwhile for them to open since a lot of people won't be vable to get to the shops?

The vast majority of customers to Tesco drive so can't blame the closure on lack of buses.

 

[83G/84D]

[QUOT
Olympian 34138 just passed me at Penzance on the 1245 Penzance to Helston Tesco. I'm hoping it then does 1336 Helston Tesco to Penzance and 1445 Penzance to Helston Tesco and 1536 return to Penzance as I shall go on it later if it does!

I can vouch for 34138's turn of speed, as it was the bus on today's last no 1 journey from Land's End which almost got me crossing the road at Greenmarket tonight. I'm not so nimble as I once was.[/QUOTE]

Yes I was impressed when I rode on it as it managed the hills around Porthleven with ease.

 

[83G/84D]

An unexpected sight when I went past Camborne today was Webbers Dennis Javelin XIL 8149.