First Manchester New Busses Or New Livery?

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northernrail

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Hi,
Just passed my Local bus station and there was 3 or 4 First Manchester Double Deckers working the 17 & 18 in a new silver livery, the numbers seemed to be in sequence so are they new busses, or just a new livery?
 
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radamfi

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anyone know the number series?
39207 (BN61 MWE)
39208 (BN61 MWF)
39209 (BN61 MWG)
39210 (BN61 MWJ)
39211 (BN61 MWK)
39212 (BN61 MWL)
39213 (BN61 MWM)
39214 (BN61 MWO)
39215 (BN61 MWP)
39216 (BN61 MWU)
39217 (BN61 MWV)
39218 (BN61 MWW)
39219 (BN61 MWX)

I think this is the complete list.
 

jamesontheroad

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The livery is a special one for hybrids.
There's Some in Glasgow aswell
Only a small number (6-10) of the new Enviros in Glasgow are hybrids. The rest are bog standard diesel and they're also in the new livery. The Manc vehicle pictured above seems to have a rather badly proportioned pink and purple swoop applied afterwards as well.
 

BestWestern

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I wouldn't have said that livery was an improvement to be honest :|

All-over silver might look very swish on a brand new, clean and shiny bus, but after a few years of the usual lacklustre First maintenance and upkeep it'll look awful. I'm not really a fan of the 'Best Impressions' style livery consultancy people, as I feel it's got to the point now where everybody has jumped on the bandwagon and all liveries now have a very copycat 'generic' feel about them. However, if the case of First I really do think that some help to devise a decent livery is long overdue!
 

bb21

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39207 (BN61 MWE)
39208 (BN61 MWF)
39209 (BN61 MWG)
39210 (BN61 MWJ)
39211 (BN61 MWK)
39212 (BN61 MWL)
39213 (BN61 MWM)
39214 (BN61 MWO)
39215 (BN61 MWP)
39216 (BN61 MWU)
39217 (BN61 MWV)
39218 (BN61 MWW)
39219 (BN61 MWX)

I think this is the complete list.
I assume these are the 14 B5LH's funded by the Green Bus Fund?

If so, there's one missing. :D
 

Bayum

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Can anyone confirm that my eyes weren't failing when I thought I saw similarly-liveried First buses in Leeds recently please?
They are indeed in Leeds. They run the 7a, 7s, X7, and some other 7 series services which leave my attention... As well as the 99, 98 and X98 for the moment.
 

tbtc

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Only a small number (6-10) of the new Enviros in Glasgow are hybrids. The rest are bog standard diesel and they're also in the new livery
First really are poor at implementing their liveries. I thought the original Barbie idea was great (all old buses stayed in their old colour scheme, and only the newest buses got the new livery - so that the First brand became associated with modern buses. Fair enough, clever thinking.

But then the initial Barbie which didn't apply to all low floor single deckers, but *did* apply to high floor double deckers.

Then the confusion over Barbie 2 (when some buses were painted out of the original Barbie scheme, but other buses moved from their old colours into the original Barbie...)

Now, no sooner have they introduced a brand new livery for only the most modern hybrid buses than they go and start painting "normal" (diesel) buses in it too, which kind of defeats the point.

Either keep everything the one colour, or be consistent about what qualifies for the latest livery.
 

Schnellzug

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i must admit I rather preferred 'Barbie 2' to 'Barbie 1'; now if it had been painted rather than done in vinyls, It would have looked much better, I feel. But yes, no one seemed to know really what it was for; round here, there was a batch of Darts that were low floor, but were 'Barbie 2' because they were inherited from the previous operator and so weren't in First spec.

According to the surmises in Buses, they've been experimenting with various new livery applications, not just for hybrids, so I suppose this is the first to see the light of Day.
 

BestWestern

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I must admit I rather preferred 'Barbie 2' to 'Barbie 1'; now if it had been painted rather than done in vinyls, It would have looked much better, I feel. But yes, no one seemed to know really what it was for; round here, there was a batch of Darts that were low floor, but were 'Barbie 2' because they were inherited from the previous operator and so weren't in First spec.
Yep, we had that as well. Ex-London Darts which were (slightly oddly) low floor but with no buggy/wheelchair bay. Are they Barbie 1 or just lowly Barbie 2...??!! Oh dear, it's all so complicated :cry:

In the end we had one in each livery!
 

BestWestern

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Plenty of ex-London 'P'-reg Darts like that around! :lol:
Indeed, what a daft spec to order! P136/7 NLP, short wheelbase jobbies with the inevitable Marshall Capital sat on top. 41136 was a flyer, 137 was a dog. Both now Coke cans :|
 

tbtc

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Yep, we had that as well. Ex-London Darts which were (slightly oddly) low floor but with no buggy/wheelchair bay. Are they Barbie 1 or just lowly Barbie 2...??!! Oh dear, it's all so complicated :cry:

In the end we had one in each livery!
Its like when the big operators came up with "National" fleet numbers.

Stagecoach did theirs so that buses from the same batch at different local "companies" ended up in the same batch of numbers, whereas First just threw numbers onto buses (so that P123ABC in Aberdeen appeared to be in a different class to P124ABC at Devon/Cornwall - registrations obviously made up). Different parts of First treated the same types of buses as different "classes" (mini vs midi, for example).
 

Schnellzug

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When they started, I think the idea was that they were numbered in order of age, regardless of registration no., so that the lowest numbered doubledecker, 30000, was the oldest VR that was left. Later on they began to number them to match the registration, to a greater or lesser extent, so that most of the pre '01 Darts and Olympians at Bristol and S&A were, for instance 46201 (L201 SHW) etc. But some companies, in the early days, did seem to be not sure what to classify Solos, for instance, as, so there's one at Yeovil called 40003 and others in the 50xxx range.
 

tbtc

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When they started, I think the idea was that they were numbered in order of age, regardless of registration no., so that the lowest numbered doubledecker, 30000, was the oldest VR that was left. Later on they began to number them to match the registration, to a greater or lesser extent, so that most of the pre '01 Darts and Olympians at Bristol and S&A were, for instance 46201 (L201 SHW) etc. But some companies, in the early days, did seem to be not sure what to classify Solos, for instance, as, so there's one at Yeovil called 40003 and others in the 50xxx range.
As an example, First SY have:

60603 - 60617 - B10Ms (N Reg)
60618 - 60702 - B710BLEss (R/S/T Reg)
60703 - 60745 - B7Ls (Y/02 Reg)
60760 - 60765 - Scania Ultralows
60798 onwards more R-reg B10BLEs

...so, basically bunch all your local stock together (rather than putting the B10BLEs in the same batch as identical buses at other First companies).

A good idea (national numbering) executed badly, just like First's livery plans.

(can you imagine if British Rail took the same approach to numbering engines - everything at Toton would be in one batch, from 08s to 47s, whilst other 47s around the country would have completely different numbers, so there was no way of telling what "size" an engine was from its number)
 

Ivo

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Indeed, what a daft spec to order! P136/7 NLP, short wheelbase jobbies with the inevitable Marshall Capital sat on top. 41136 was a flyer, 137 was a dog. Both now Coke cans :|
I wish the ones sent to Bath and Hadleigh (that's the Southend area depot, which technically isn't in Southend borough) became Coke cans instead of finding their way on to our streets :|

Pretty much any non-Pointer Dart from the 'P'-reg era fell foul of this. It was kind of dumb to be honest. Hadleigh has East Lancs examples as well as Marshalls.
 

BestWestern

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Its like when the big operators came up with "National" fleet numbers.

Stagecoach did theirs so that buses from the same batch at different local "companies" ended up in the same batch of numbers, whereas First just threw numbers onto buses (so that P123ABC in Aberdeen appeared to be in a different class to P124ABC at Devon/Cornwall - registrations obviously made up). Different parts of First treated the same types of buses as different "classes" (mini vs midi, for example).
I agree, First's national numbering is a complete hash. Mind you it's hardly surprising, their official depot allocation lists have half the motors listed under the wrong bodybuilder or chassis spec or whatever! To be honest I don't really see the point of national numbers, why not just use the reg mark for the computers and let the local fleets use their own numbers.
 

Schnellzug

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I agree, First's national numbering is a complete hash. Mind you it's hardly surprising, their official depot allocation lists have half the motors listed under the wrong bodybuilder or chassis spec or whatever! To be honest I don't really see the point of national numbers, why not just use the reg mark for the computers and let the local fleets use their own numbers.
Ah, that can lead to all sorts of confusion. I think when it was under Somerset & Avon, a bunch of ex-Badgerline Darts was transferred to Weymouth, which kept their original numbers 201 etc, and then some more were transferred from Centrewest, N633 ACF etc, and these were numbered 233 etc in keeping with the Badgerline ones. But that meant that they then duplicated the ex badgerline ones at S&A. Things could get confusing.
 
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