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First: Motorway Fleet

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JumpinTrainz

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Spotted a FSE X36 branded E300 on the motorway the other day. I believe these buses were ex-First Glasgow and were transferred in 2015 which saw the E200MMCs replace them at Parkhead (then on to Caledonia). It did seem slightly odd that a bus with smaller wheels would be used daily on a longer distance motorway service.

In recent years the express services within FIG have been branded E400MMCs. Not 100% sure of the story there but heard bits and pieces of it originally being to do with problems with the stop/start. Prior to that B7TLs were used along with B9TLs. There aren’t that many motorway based services in the fleet. The airport services I believe have a bigger engine to cope with the constant thrashing down the M8, however most normal buses used on motorway services everyday don’t. Which got me thinking...

Is motorway work good for normal commuter buses? Does constant motorway work eventually affect the performance of the bus itself? Which buses would you say were better suited to motorway work? Or does it not really matter a great deal as they are built for any roads. It would be interesting to see.
 
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CM

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The E400City Airport buses have the same running gear as the E400MMC's.

However the Airport E400s are most likley set up for Motorway running. I've travelled on both the Airport ones and a few weeks ago travelled on an X3 which was being operated by one of the new, unbranded E400s and the Airport vehicle seemed to be alot quicker going down the M8.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Spotted a FSE X36 branded E300 on the motorway the other day. I believe these buses were ex-First Glasgow and were transferred in 2015 which saw the E200MMCs replace them at Parkhead (then on to Caledonia). It did seem slightly odd that a bus with smaller wheels would be used daily on a longer distance motorway service.

In recent years the express services within FIG have been branded E400MMCs. Not 100% sure of the story there but heard bits and pieces of it originally being to do with problems with the stop/start. Prior to that B7TLs were used along with B9TLs. There aren’t that many motorway based services in the fleet. The airport services I believe have a bigger engine to cope with the constant thrashing down the M8, however most normal buses used on motorway services everyday don’t. Which got me thinking...

Is motorway work good for normal commuter buses? Does constant motorway work eventually affect the performance of the bus itself? Which buses would you say were better suited to motorway work? Or does it not really matter a great deal as they are built for any roads. It would be interesting to see.

Once upon a time, operators might specify high speed axles or uprated engines. However, for many years, the vehicles are generally pretty standard. First did order a number of B7RLEs with high backed seats but they're standard fleet underneath, for example.

It's not like an out and out express coach service spending 2 hours on the limiter on the M74 and M6 so not really constant motorway work. As Colin M mentions, you can map the drivetrain to be set up different in terms of gear ratios, top speed etc
 

Jordan Adam

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However the Airport E400s are most likley set up for Motorway running. I've travelled on both the Airport ones and a few weeks ago travelled on an X3 which was being operated by one of the new, unbranded E400s and the Airport vehicle seemed to be alot quicker going down the M8.

Indeed they most likely are.
 

83G/84D

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I believe that the E200MMC comes with different engine power versions. I was once told that some of the Essex based examples were suffering a number of mechanical issues due to long periods of relatively high speed running on A roads.

I think from memory they were Chelmsford based and didn’t have the up rated / more powerful engines.
 

Jordan Adam

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I believe that the E200MMC comes with different engine power versions. I was once told that some of the Essex based examples were suffering a number of mechanical issues due to long periods of relatively high speed running on A roads.

I think from memory they were Chelmsford based and didn’t have the up rated / more powerful engines.

The integral E200MMC comes with two engines, both are Cummins ISBe's but of different displacements and power ratings*.

4 Cylinder 4.5 Litre (offered on all lengths)
6 Cylinder 6.7 Litre (Offered on the 10.8M and 11.5M models**)

*The 4 cylinder engine is effectively the same as the 6 cylinder but with two cylinders "chopped off" so to speak.
**The bigger engine adds 30CM to the overall length (rear overhang), so those two models end up with a length of 11.1M & 11.8M. The 11.1M model has so far only been built for the Hong Kong market.

All integral diesel Enviro400MMC and Enviro400City's at present have the 6 cylinder engine, however ADL have been doing testing on a bus with a 4 cylinder unit.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The integral E200MMC comes with two engines, both are Cummins ISBe's but of different displacements and power ratings*.

4 Cylinder 4.5 Litre (offered on all lengths)
6 Cylinder 6.7 Litre (Offered on the 10.8M and 11.5M models**)

*The 4 cylinder engine is effectively the same as the 6 cylinder but with two cylinders "chopped off" so to speak.
**The bigger engine adds 30CM to the overall length (rear overhang), so those two models end up with a length of 11.1M & 11.8M. The 11.1M model has so far only been built for the Hong Kong market.

All integral diesel Enviro400MMC and Enviro400City's at present have the 6 cylinder engine, however ADL have been doing testing on a bus with a 4 cylinder unit.

Yep, those are the relatively limited options. Of course, if you're in London, you'll need a completely bespoke vehicle ;)
 

alangla

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From what I remember, FiG got some 07 plate B7 Geminis remapped when they started running their short lived 901 service to Largs. Whether this adjusted max power output, power delivery or top speed I can’t recall
 

Gingerbus1991

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I believe that the E200MMC comes with different engine power versions. I was once told that some of the Essex based examples were suffering a number of mechanical issues due to long periods of relatively high speed running on A roads.

I think from memory they were Chelmsford based and didn’t have the up rated / more powerful engines.
Here it comes...

Jordan is well informed.

The ISBe 6.7ltr comes in either 220hp/900nm or 250hp/1000nm options in the 200 MMC mated to either a Voith DIWA(4 Speed) or Allison T280R(6 Speed), with the 250 rating found as standard in the 400 MMC/CITY deckers with either a Voith or ZF gearbox(6 Speed).

The 4.5ltr(the other option) can be chosen with 150hp/650nm or 180hp/700nm mated to the Voith or an Allison T2100, a 210hp version at 210hp/850nm can be chosen also with a Voith or Allison T280R.

High speed running Shouldn't be a problem for any bus, but a lack of longer/more gear ratios in top whilst cruising will tell on an engine, especially one which isn't preventatively maintained well.

When it comes to engine longevity I suspect the 220 6.7 would outlast the 210 4.5 if its being pushed hard throughout its life.

Once upon a time, operators might specify high speed axles or uprated engines. However, for many years, the vehicles are generally pretty standard. First did order a number of B7RLEs with high backed seats but they're standard fleet underneath, for example.

It's not like an out and out express coach service spending 2 hours on the limiter on the M74 and M6 so not really constant motorway work. As Colin M mentions, you can map the drivetrain to be set up different in terms of gear ratios, top speed etc
The modern day option to improve acceleration are by altering gearbox control software which interfaces with the engine control unit to adopt either as said acceleration or fuel economy.

The 6speed ZF Ecolife gearbox would be the logical option for higher speed running, but only just.
 
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Gingerbus1991

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From what I remember, FiG got some 07 plate B7 Geminis remapped when they started running their short lived 901 service to Largs. Whether this adjusted max power output, power delivery or top speed I can’t recall
The ZF Ecomat that was fitted to early B7’s in particular were rather limited in its software options, top speed is a separate matter controlled directly from the ECU not the gearbox settings, power delivery on modern buses is dealt with via electrical interface between an engine and gearbox control units and there software working together.

On an early B7 with a ZF Ecomat You had Super Eco, Eco, Comfort, Power and Super Power modes which had pre determined gear-change shift points, but the B7’s turbo lag nature ment that if it was in a mode which was to eco orientated it felt sluggish constantly, the latest gearboxes by ZF and Voith use software which can effect not just the gear-change shift point but also the way in which it allows/restricts the engines available power, modern E6 engines have particularly responsive turbo chargers with far less lag than there older counter parts, but in turn this has also been exploited by many operators to lower engine rpm in seeking superior fuel economy figures!

Glasgows latest 2018/2019 round of 400 MMC/CITY buses have gearbox maps which are a-little more forth coming with engine power, comparing them to the 2015 order and you soon realise this when itting on them back-to-back, ironically the 2015 order are those used on xpress serices yet are far more sluggish, a remap would do them good!
 
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