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First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

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stevenedin

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I have commented on this before and got quite a roasting for it. First are employing bully tactics, hanging back on LC, jamming them in at stops, driving deliberately slow in front of them, hanging back at Traffic lights in the hope of getting the LC bus stuck on a red. The hogging of bus stops in Livingston Centre, Bathgate etc. especially where the Bathgate Partnership Centre is. Using that stop as a changeover and or a timepoint, given the amount of services that use it, is completely bizarre. Having worked for and against First, I can confirm these are just some of the tactics they use to antagonise competitors. I wish them every failure as they deserve all they get. Just hope the drivers at both First and Lothian realise that if an accident occurs as a result of these stupid tactics, the companies will, pardon the pun, throw them under the bus. First are the worst company for these tactics and believe me when I say I have experienced it first hand on several occasions over the last 20+ years in the industry. This is their game, and like I’ve stated, I wish them every failure.
Thanks for sharing. I wasn’t having a good at First but when I noticed it I was quite surprised.

I haven’t had any issues in recent years with First drivers they have always been friendly enough compared to my experience with them years ago and Lothiancountry have been friendly too. The Horsburgh driver was also friendly.

I think that drivers acting like this in any bus company should be disciplined. It is dangerous and doesn’t show any respect for others. I wonder if management would actually care that’s the issue.

Overall though I had an enjoyable trip on all of the routes today.

Streetlites are not suited to the Falkirk local routes let alone the X38
I don’t think that they are suited to routes other than short routes.
 
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I have commented on this before and got quite a roasting for it. First are employing bully tactics, hanging back on LC, jamming them in at stops, driving deliberately slow in front of them, hanging back at Traffic lights in the hope of getting the LC bus stuck on a red. The hogging of bus stops in Livingston Centre, Bathgate etc. especially where the Bathgate Partnership Centre is. Using that stop as a changeover and or a timepoint, given the amount of services that use it, is completely bizarre. Having worked for and against First, I can confirm these are just some of the tactics they use to antagonise competitors. I wish them every failure as they deserve all they get. Just hope the drivers at both First and Lothian realise that if an accident occurs as a result of these stupid tactics, the companies will, pardon the pun, throw them under the bus. First are the worst company for these tactics and believe me when I say I have experienced it first hand on several occasions over the last 20+ years in the industry. This is their game, and like I’ve stated, I wish them every failure.
I would say more that it’s certain drivers thing than coming from first or LC management .
 

ScotRail158725

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Thanks for sharing. I wasn’t having a good at First but when I noticed it I was quite surprised.

I haven’t had any issues in recent years with First drivers they have always been friendly enough compared to my experience with them years ago and Lothiancountry have been friendly too. The Horsburgh driver was also friendly.

I think that drivers acting like this in any bus company should be disciplined. It is dangerous and doesn’t show any respect for others. I wonder if management would actually care that’s the issue.

Overall though I had an enjoyable trip on all of the routes today.


I don’t think that they are suited to routes other than short routes.
They’re not even suited to a drive around the depot. Absolutely horrible things. The RLEs should be on the X38 or at least Enviro 300s if they’ve got enough spare from the X37 which are very suited to fast runs

I would say more that it’s certain drivers thing than coming from first or LC management .
The poster said that this was a management tactic he exprerienced working for first so id be inclined to believe that it is
 

stevenedin

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They’re not even suited to a drive around the depot. Absolutely horrible things. The RLEs should be on the X38 or at least Enviro 300s if they’ve got enough spare from the X37 which are very suited to fast runs


The poster said that this was a management tactic he exprerienced working for first so id be inclined to believe that it is
It’s shocking if that’s true. Maybe that is why they are keen on sticking in West Lothian although to be fair they are getting used. The X22 I saw was full and various other First buses are getting used too. I’ve noticed more people using them within Edinburgh maybe because of the cheaper day ticket or faster limited stop routes compared to some Lothian city routes.
 

ScotRail158725

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In my almost 8 years experience of riding them I'm yet to find any route that a Streetlite is suitable for other than a one way trip to PVS Barnsley! :lol:
Preferably on the back of a wrekcer so it makes there without breaking down…
 

Lothianbus703

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From what I've experienced myself and from what I've read here streetlites must be one of the worst buses built

Their irritating emergency exit rattles
Always horrific at changing gears
Whole buses jolts back and forward
Most drivers don't even enjoy driving them
Problems aren't only an enthusiast thing
Uncomfortable bumpy ride
A few already need replacement engine


You know a bus is bad when old Wright solars and Urbana are in better condition and way more suitable then a streetlite.

Streetlites aren't suitable for most work as theu basically give nobody a good experience.
 
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Thanks for all the replies. I was just wondering RE the X38 vehicles as I'm not sure if the B7RLEs comply with the low emission zone in Edinburgh?

I've only travelled on a Streetlite a few times before but I really didn't find them that bad. The rattles were annoying but couldn't they just be fixed with something like a bit of bluetak?
Yes the interiors look a bit bare but the fact that First specifies a relatively nice interior sort of compensates a bit.
I must admit I do like how open and spacious the interior feels.

Why do they seem to break down so much on demanding routes? They can't be all that much different from a long-wheelbase E200, and those manage "fine" on some of the more hilly routes Stagecoach use them on up North ("fine" as in they don't appear to continually break down).
 

Baileygirl

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I would say more that it’s certain drivers thing than coming from first or LC management .
No instructions from management, indeed they would be booked for bad driving. Lothian Country drivers are just as bad. Hugging the bus stops In the Centre. One X28 driver tried everything to get past a X22 going down Langton Road when the bus was stopped at bus stops. when he did pass the bus when it was moving he almost hit a car. Then he hit a wing mirror on a bus at the Centre. Could bad timing be cause of their impatience?
 

GusB

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Okay, we'll stop the bickering there. Please keep to the subject of First Scotland East and it's services. Discussion of Lothian Country is off-topic here and should be done in the relevant thread.
 
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I have commented on this before and got quite a roasting for it. First are employing bully tactics, hanging back on LC, jamming them in at stops, driving deliberately slow in front of them, hanging back at Traffic lights in the hope of getting the LC bus stuck on a red. The hogging of bus stops in Livingston Centre, Bathgate etc. especially where the Bathgate Partnership Centre is. Using that stop as a changeover and or a timepoint, given the amount of services that use it, is completely bizarre. Having worked for and against First, I can confirm these are just some of the tactics they use to antagonise competitors. I wish them every failure as they deserve all they get. Just hope the drivers at both First and Lothian realise that if an accident occurs as a result of these stupid tactics, the companies will, pardon the pun, throw them under the bus. First are the worst company for these tactics and believe me when I say I have experienced it first hand on several occasions over the last 20+ years in the industry. This is their game, and like I’ve stated, I wish them every failure.
What your referring to isn’t directly asked of them to do this by management.

Believe it or not the drivers who do this purposely take it upon themselves to be like this, whether it’s because some see it as protecting the job they have by inhibiting another companies bus service I’m not sure, it’s petty if you ask me.
 
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Mickcloud9

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What your referring to isn’t directly asked of them to do this by management.

Believe it or not the drivers who do this purposely take it upon themselves to be like this, whether it’s because some are it as protecting the job they have by inhibiting another companies bus I’m not sure, it’s petty if you ask me.
I totally agree. I’m very much of the opinion that there are enough passengers out there for everyone to have their share. It may not be coming from higher management, but there are people in middle to lower management who are in the train of thought that they must beat the competition all ends up, no matter the cost.

It’s something I have experienced at training level I.e during route training, and also when a new service from a competitor begins. Suddenly the established operator has loads of extra buses and drivers to drown out the newcomer. That in itself is in no way cost effective. It is petty. At the end of the day no matter what company you work for, you are a driver and you're only paid to drive. You don’t get commission and let’s be fair, with the introduction of more of the National Entitlement Card (NEC), the majority of passengers have passes now. It’s not worth losing your licence for the sake of a concessionary fare.
 
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I totally agree. I’m very much of the opinion that there are enough passengers out there for everyone to have their share. It may not be coming from higher management, there are people in middle to lower management who are in the train of thought that they must beat the competition all ends up, no matter the cost. It’s something I have experienced at training level I.e during route training, and also when a new service from a competitor begins, suddenly the established operator has loads of extra buses and drivers to drown out the newcomer. That in its self is in no way cost effective.
Hence the reason privatisation needs to be ended.

It is petty. At the end of the day no matter what company u work for, u are a driver and ur only paid to drive. U don’t get commission and let’s be fair, with the introduction of more of the NEC, the majority of passengers have passes now. It’s not worth losing ur licence for the sake of a concessionary fare.
There are drivers out there more so than ever before disregarding the safety of there licences because they simply sick of the job.
 

PaulMc7

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Hence the reason privatisation needs to be ended.


There are drivers out there more so than ever before disregarding the safety of there licences because they simply sick of the job.
This is pretty much spot on tbh. People forget drivers are still human and there's only so much they can take from public, management and personal life before they stop caring and aggression creeps in. I've seen it everywhere I've ever been by bus to be fair
 

mb88

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I’ve been at Lothian Country for over 3 years and I really don’t think there is any widespread animosity or deliberate bullying techniques from either side. The vast majority of First drivers will give you a friendly wave on the road, some don’t but then the same can be said of some other Lothian drivers.

The situation at the centre is purely down to too many buses service too small a bus terminal in my view rather than anyone trying to block competitors’ services from getting in. The only times anything remotely like this has happened to me has been where a First bus has pulled in behind another one at the stance, the driver got out to have a smoke or whatever, the other bus has left, and the driver hasn’t moved his or her bus down to allow another one behind. Nine times out of ten this is because the driver probably hasn’t noticed another bus is waiting to get in, and generally a polite toot of the horn will alert them to your presence and they’ll jump in and move up.

Similarly, when our 281 was terminating at Fauldhouse railway station, the 26 was timed to arrive and depart during the time we were on layover there. I don’t know any driver at LC that wouldn’t park a wee bit back from the actual bus stop to allow the 26 room to manoeuvre round the turning circle. There may be one or two drivers from both sides with a bee in their bonnet about something but it certainly isn’t widespread.
 

PaulMc7

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Anyone know what award First's app actually won? 4th day of the changes and never ever been on the app
 

scosutsut

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Anyone know what award First's app actually won? 4th day of the changes and never ever been on the app
For timely changes during the pandemic, ironically...


First Bus has won the Travel App of the Year award at the UK App Awards with app partner Future Platforms. Judges announcing the win praised the implementation of its ‘customer-first’ features that were fast-tracked during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Since March, First Bus has worked with partners to develop and deliver initiatives which support safe and convenient travel for customers throughout the pandemic and beyond. Working closely with partners Ticketer and Transport API, live vehicle tracking and capacity updates were introduced to the First Bus App in version 4.7 earlier this year.

Joint winner Future Platforms designed the app interface to ensure that the live data is shown in a clear and accessible way for First’s customers. The ease of use and speed of implementation of the live tracking had already been widely praised by customers and stakeholders after First Bus rolled out the live tracking app updates.

In line with customer feedback, the judges at the virtual ceremony said: “The speed at which the live tracking and capacity updates were implemented was very impressive, especially considering the wider circumstances. It was a much-needed solution that improved the app on a huge scale.”

Janette Bell, incoming Managing Director at First Bus said: “Our award win is a celebration for everyone who has worked tirelessly throughout the pandemic to fast-track new app capabilities for our customers, and we’re thrilled that they’ve been recognised by the UK App Awards. Following the introduction of national lockdowns across the UK, we understood that live tracking and visibility of bus capacity would be of significant benefit to our customers following the introduction of social distancing on board our vehicles. Our partners worked with us at pace to make this a reality and the feedback has been phenomenal. The response at launch, and which continues today with the award win, highlights why our customer-first approach will continue to be central to digital initiatives at First Bus over the coming months.”

Simon Peck, CEO at Future Platforms added: “We’re delighted to have been recognised by the UK App Awards for our collaborative work with First Bus and their partners Ticketer and Transport API. It was a real team effort to deliver the functionality to allow First Bus customers to view live bus times and seating capacity, alongside the existing ticket purchase, activation and timetable features. We are particularly proud to receive feedback highlighting that we have implemented something of real value to customers during the pandemic.”
 

PaulMc7

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For timely changes during the pandemic, ironically...

Ironically it's got significantly worse since. I've never known an app that absolutely kills the use of the next operating area to one getting new timetables only for the timetables to not be on it 4 days into a new timetable. The app was unusable in Glasgow too on Monday after the Livingston changes kicked in. I do wonder if it'll reverse on Sunday with Glasgow changes taking place.

I'd be a bit shocked if it's fixed in West Lothian before then. It'll also probably delay the cancellation feature that was being tested too last week. It seemed like Balfron, Bannockburn and Livingston all had tests working on it. I noticed an X10, 51, 52, 26 and 600 all showing as cancelled on it.

No shock to see that the cancellation lists have only gotten longer since the changes. 4 26s in a row cancelled at one point
 
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Bus Lightyear

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Ironically it's got significantly worse since. I've never known an app that absolutely kills the use of the next operating area to one getting new timetables only for the timetables to not be on it 4 days into a new timetable. The app was unusable in Glasgow too on Monday after the Livingston changes kicked in. I do wonder if it'll reverse on Sunday with Glasgow changes taking place.

I'd be a bit shocked if it's fixed in West Lothian before then. It'll also probably delay the cancellation feature that was being tested too last week. It seemed like Balfron, Bannockburn and Livingston all had tests working on it. I noticed an X10, 51, 52, 26 and 600 all showing as cancelled on it.

No shock to see that the cancellation lists have only gotten longer since the changes. 4 26s in a row cancelled at one point
Why don't you and Trnsprt4Sctland both write a joint letter to Firstgroup's CEO and he might offer both of you consultancy roles and you can fix all of the company's problems then we can all live happily ever after. ;)
 

PaulMc7

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Why don't you and Trnsprt4Sctland both write a joint letter to Firstgroup's CEO and he might offer both of you consultancy roles and you can fix all of the company's problems then we can all live happily ever after. ;)
Why would I bother given I don't even live in the area? I was merely reporting for those that do
 

Bus Lightyear

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Why would I bother given I don't even live in the area? I was merely reporting for those that do
Well you've got plenty to say about First in particular when probably almost every bus company is suffering the consequences of the employment and commercial market just now.

There's very little point in complaining on the comments section on this forum or on any of the social media channels however if you compile a list of concerns and suggestions through the company's customer service email account and include the relevant councillors/msps then there's a chance something might be done about it, although I cant say that with any certainty.

I'm unsure if it still exists these days but there was a Bus Users Watchdog which acts on behalf of the whole industry.
 

PaulMc7

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Well you've got plenty to say about First in particular when probably almost every bus company is suffering the consequences of the employment and commercial market just now.

There's very little point in complaining on the comments section on this forum or on any of the social media channels however if you compile a list of concerns and suggestions through the company's customer service email account and include the relevant councillors/msps then there's a chance something might be done about it, although I cant say that with any certainty.

I'm unsure if it still exists these days but there was a Bus Users Watchdog which acts on behalf of the whole industry.
Given I use First on a daily basis that just be why I say most about First obviously. It's a forum for opinions. I share them...

I don't trust any politicians when it comes to public transport at all either in terms of helping the industry with shortages
 

Bus Lightyear

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Given I use First on a daily basis that just be why I say most about First obviously. It's a forum for opinions. I share them...

I don't trust any politicians when it comes to public transport at all either in terms of helping the industry with shortages
Some politicians will help you but unfortunately some are totally useless.

Staff shortages isn't the only issue facing the industry just now.
 

PaulMc7

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Some politicians will help you but unfortunately some are totally useless.

Staff shortages isn't the only issue facing the industry just now.
Fuel flying up is the next shocker but driver shortages is definitely the worst one as that stops everything in terms of reliability and that's the thing that creates the passenger base in the first place.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Given I use First on a daily basis that just be why I say most about First obviously. It's a forum for opinions. I share them...

I don't trust any politicians when it comes to public transport at all either in terms of helping the industry with shortages

I have had a quick look on the Wikipedia page of the Glasgow City Council elections of 2022, and Malcolm Balfour (SNP) who is a former bus driver retired and did not stand again.

Balfour was one of the councillors for the Drumchapel/Anniesland ward - unsure if that is your ward though.
 

PaulMc7

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I have had a quick look on the Wikipedia page of the Glasgow City Council elections of 2022, and Malcolm Balfour (SNP) who is a former bus driver retired and did not stand again.

Balfour was one of the councillors for the Drumchapel/Anniesland ward - unsure if that is your ward though.
It's very close to me but not quite my ward. Back on topic for the thread and there's a recruitment day at the Gyle on the 21st
 
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