First South West and Wales discussion

Discussion in 'Buses & Coaches' started by Ivo, 27 Feb 2012.

  1. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Concur with the 377 comments. My experience is that you get the Wells to Street traffic. A little bit south of Street but then it's mainly Somerton and Ilminster into Yeovil.

    As for long journeys, I did the full Weymouth to Taunton on the 31 about 25 years ago (though in reality, you always had to change in Axminster anyway). So a knackered VR from Weymouth to Axminster and then a change onto an Iveco Turbo Daily to Taunton!!

    I did the return on a pair of VRs and was sat at the front on the first one. A quite attractive girl got on and wearing a pair of shorts, so I snuck a couple of surreptitious glances as she sat across from me. On changing at Axminster, she got the big front seat. I went upstairs and went to sit elsewhere. She said "You can sit at the front - that way, you can keep looking at my legs!" Talk about busted!! :oops:

    She was actually really friendly (as well as obviously very confident) so we chatted all the way to Bridport (where sadly, she was off to meet her boyfriend). :D If only such long journeys were so interesting!!
     
  2. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Well i can't say that's happened yet to me, but i'm still hopeful :) May have to do Bath to Salisbury more often and see if anything happens.
     
  3. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Sad to say, very much the exception (or maybe that's just me!) I have travelled on the 30/31 since then and no repeat :(

    To be fair, the 265 into Salisbury is more likely to be ladies of a more mature nature! Also, you won't get a decker.... Perhaps the 49 might be better??
     
  4. Marc

    Marc Member

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    Youd be surprised the power of the bus pass. pentioners will make very illogical trips if there is no cost to them.

    179 is already subsadised up to the balls by banes with the paulton developer money. whenever i see it, the writhelington end looks very weak. it also seems to always be dogging a 178 or 379 between paulton and norton.

    I prefered the vanhools!
     
  5. CD

    CD Member

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    The main flow on 377 is Yeovil to Street boosted by students for Strode College(0729/0922 from Yeovil and 1444/1620 ex Wells are always full) with some Ilchester and Somerton intermediate traffic as well.
    Then its the same traffic as 375/376 along the Street/Glastonbury/Wells corridor.

    There used to be some through Yeovil/Ilchester/Somerton to Bristol passengers, but these have all but disappeared since the through service ended. People do not like changing buses en-route.
     
  6. Class 33

    Class 33 Established Member

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    Why would all over advertising(including the front!) livery buses confuse passengers? It didn't confuse me back in the 80's, nor am I aware that it confused anyone else. For isntance if I was waiting for a 77 I'd look out for a bus with 77 Hartcliffe or 77 Henbury on the destination display. Usually they'd have a red front in the usual City Line livery, but sometimes they might have a white or a black or whatever other colour/s if they were a bus with all over advertising. Or perhaps a blue, yellow, and red front in the City Clipper livery that was sometimes used on that service. As long as it had 77 on the destination display, I know that is the bus I need to put my hand out to get on!

    But you are right though that sadly most bus companies nowadays are more interested in the image of their buses. So don't want to bother with completely all over advertising on their buses. A shame as that Cloudy Cider liveried bus would look quite smart if the livery was applied to the front too, with a green, white, and blue on the front. As it stands, it looks like they applied the livery to most of the bus but forgot to do the front! Oh well, at least it's a bit of an improvement to some of the recent buses with advertising on, which had the advertising livery applied to just one single side of the bus only!
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2016
  7. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Thats what i was alluding to (or trying to in my ramblings :) ). Still see a few odd passengers wanting the 377 and change at Wells - when I got into Wells on Saturday on 376 there was a chap who asked where the 377 stops - first one i've seen in a while though.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    42959 on 50 this evening
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Well passengers would get confused nowadays - what would you do if a bus with an overall advert came along on the 1 to Cribbs - we would obviously look at the fleet number (but sometimes not very easy - just look at 66943 when that had an overall advert - couldn't see the fleet number at all at the front), but for normal everyday non enthusiasts, it wouldn't be so easy to tell if it is Wessex or First.
     
  8. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Whoops - Freudian slip. I'll be getting my Tytheringtons mixed up next :D
     
  9. Class 33

    Class 33 Established Member

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    I do agree in the case of the 1, but only with the 1 in particular and not any other services. I tried to edit that into my posting just now but it wouldn't let me. Yes with all over advertising on the 1, well that would certainly cause confusion with passengers as most people wouldn't be able to tell if it was a First 1 or a Wessex 1! In particular with Northbound 1's heading to Cribbs Causeway. Though personally I thought it was a bit daft Wessex introducing their own service 1 anyway which duplicates half of the route of First's 1!
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2016
  10. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Never went on the Van Hools. The Plaxton Premiere's were nice though too.

    I do agree with a certain price elasticity of demand in terms of ENCTS pass but by the same token, many pensioners will not travel 2hrs+ for reasons of lack of toilets etc. The 265 end to end is an experience for the hardy few (and yep, I've done the "full" route though I never did it when it ran the "fullest" route from Salisbury to Bristol!)

    As for 179, the section 106 funding is welcome (assume that's Paulton development?) though the evening and Sunday service seems very generous. As for Writhlington, I've made my views known before on here.... a couple of journeys get about 4/5 people on and the rest are dead. However, nearly fell off my perch when I got the 0706 one Saturday the other week and I didn't have it to myself!!

    I didn't realise there was much dogging in Norton.....;)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    In ye olden days, it wasn't an issue to have a fully all over ad. However, with deregulation, the fear is that you don't want people to be confused and to let your bus past in favour of a competitor. Hence, fleet livery is maintained.

    Now you can argue that the 1 is a special case. However, you wouldn't want that bus to operate anywhere where such confusion could reign so it rules out routes 1/2/3/4 and the 48/48A/49 to highlight two such corridors.

    As for Wessex competing against the First 1, it makes perfect sense and for two specific reasons

    • It's an established route with established passenger flows - try starting a brand new route from scratch - it is a real challenge and an investment
    • The whole idea is to retaliate against First for introducing the U1 in Bath and the 48A in Bristol - how can retaliate if you're not hurting the opposition?
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2016
  11. swifty

    swifty Established Member

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    Also of note is that Mr Nicholas has persuaded 'the powers that be' to repaint the pink fronted B7Ls to green fronts. 60985 is the first to be done, it looks quite nice in the hybrid livery!
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    No that was all lies, it was purely because B7s are not upto the job of working a route such as the X39. :lol:

    I mean how the original batch lasted so long.....
     
  12. Private Baxter

    Private Baxter Established Member

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    Ah yes, the old X4/X5 Bristol to Salisbury. Before my time in Bath so don't remember that service. What route did it take to Bristol? Was it run out of Westbury o/s using 66937-61?
    And on the subject of Westbury, do we think the current arrangement of 265/267/272 interworking is sustainable? I realise the loss of other routes such as 234 left vacancies for staff based there, rather than move to Bath, but long term I wonder if Westbury o/s might only be 265.
     
  13. South Westerly

    South Westerly Member

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    It had nothing to do with 'Mr Nicholas' and it was a decision taken by someone without any suggestion from anyone else at all!
     
  14. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    So is this just the front or the overall livery will change to green?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    What about the route numbers which are similar - U1 and U18 in Bath and 22 and 222 in Bristol - if you misread it by 1 number you get charged a different companies fares.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    It's interesting in Westbury. I don't think for 1 minute that we'll see that interworking at the end of the year. I wonder if we might see a similar service to 234 introduced, running from Devises to Westbury to Frome and they then make all 272s into 271s. Probably would involve an extra 2 buses, so they'd have 11 Maxs for 265 and something like 6/7 B7s (69253, 66881-6). I doubt it'll happen. I can't see them shrinking Westbury though very much.
     
  15. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    I'm pretty certain you'll not see a Devizes to Frome service. Both the 58 and 87 are tendered and will be subject to Wiltshire Council cuts this year anyway.

    As for people misreading service numbers.... well, there is only so much you can do. It doesn't happen often and we've often had a lot of services grouped with similar numbers (e.g. 3** in Bristol). The one daft one I can think of was the two First ones in Bristol - sorted by making the Weston one into W1.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Hi there

    Quick question? Is this just a temporary livery alteration so that people aren't confused and can be out their "green BoS" bus on competing corridors (Taunton to Burnham/Somerton/Wellington) until such time as they can get into the paintshop and get full livery?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Bit of a long story and our Wiltshire correspondent and Mr Swifty will probably put me right on the finer details or those that I've just got plainly wrong

    The service wasn't a through service but was two routes. 264/5 Trowbridge to Bath and 241 Trowbridge to Salisbury until 1983. Latter was a joint op between BOC and W&D. Both used REs as the Wilton bridge was supposed to be an issue for LNs - it isn't now so have they dug the road down?

    With the closure of Trowbridge bus station/depot in 1983, the services were combined for operational reasons and the X41 Salisbury to Bath was created. W&D now reaching Bath! It was at de-reg (ish) that it was extended to Bristol. Joint operation continued despite Badgerline now having invaded Poole and Salisbury against W&D. The X4 route was two hourly Salisbury to Warminster then hourly westwards. The route was the same as now except via North Bradley, but from Bradford it went via Monkton and Sally in the Woods to Bath. From Bath, it ran as per the X39 - there were two X39s per hour plus an X3 from Frome (as per 267) and the X4 to give a 15 min service. Usual vehicles - Duple Lasers (W&D) and LN2s (Badgerline). This was my first experience of it albeit never to Bristol - mainly because I'd have been on a Wiltshire Day Rover into Bath.

    It was however cut back to Bath by 1993 as it was getting very unreliable (getting out of Bristol and across Bath), and three buses per hour from Trowbridge was too many so it was rerouted via Winsley to replace the 264. The headway was still hourly with 2 hourly projections - no Sunday service (and evening service every 90 mins on 265). Two Badgerline vehicles (I think) - one from an expanded TE outstation on Canal Road and one from Bath - two from W&D Warminster o/s. Think it was W&D Plaxton Premieres (Volvo?) and First Volvo B10Ms

    The change in headway came with RBC funding (2001/2?) and hence the doubling of services east of Trowbridge with the 265 being absorbed. It created the X4/X5 (and later the X6 to reflect splitting of the service for EU rules) and that's what we see today in terms of the headways. W&D had an extra vehicle as did First. First had some ex Leicester Scanias by this point?

    2005 saw both the companies get new fleet with First's 66937 etc, and W&D Citaros. However, by 2009 (?), the problems of running long routes and the start of remuneration challenges saw W&D pull out. The route was severed at Warminster with the 265 being with First. W&D retained the Salisbury end as the 24 on a short term contract but it was then won by Hatts who operated it until 2013 when First decided to re-extend the route commercially.

    Like I say, there will be a few dates/things I've got wrong but think it's broadly like that.
     
  16. matt_splat

    matt_splat Member

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    i think the current set up of the westbury services is so the drivers spend some time in bath and breaks are done in bath mainly i'd expect its so its easier to manage what's going on with busses and drivers from bath as the supervisor that is in charge at westbury goes to bath once the run out is complete.

    if first could get to devizes with just two busses i believe they would but would you really want maxs going around the lanes that the 87 does?
     
    Last edited: 4 Feb 2016
  17. Private Baxter

    Private Baxter Established Member

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    The reason I bring it up is that I think, logistically 267 and 272 would be better run from Bath. I guess giving the routes to Westbury was the best way of minimizing staff redundancies/transfers etc, especially since some of the gaps created in Bath were then filled by increased uni services. I'm sure the unions would have had a lot to say about it! But problems could arise should there be delays in say, Salisbury, affecting the 272 in Melksham! Or vise versa. I realise there is a fair bit of layover time in Bath, Melksham etc, but still. It's not ideal in my opinion, but suppose it will have to do for now. Wells managed it fairly well when they did 379, but is now better managed by Bath.

    Thank you for the comprehensive rundown! I understand that the southern section is picking up, and I for one hope this continues.
     
  18. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    That is the rub with interworking and the reasons behind it are well summarised.

    I can't see any additional services - Devizes to Frome are covered by two tendered services and certainly the 87 is lightly loaded. Don't think too many use the 58 either IIRC.

    To be honest, if First didn't think the X72 to Devizes and Easterton didn't pay, then there's no way a Frome to Devizes will! FWIW, I always thought the withdrawal of that section and giving it to Faresaver was a short sighted decision.

    First don't seem to be in any hurry to do anything particularly targeted at Faresaver so I don't think we'll see much on the 272, 231, or 267. What we may well see is the withdrawal of evening services on the 272 and 231 with the loss of council support. Whether they elect to keep the Sunday services going, you might hope?
     
  19. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    Well i don't necessarily mean Devizes, but have a service linking the 272 with 267, so a driver can do it in one big circle.

    How exactly does it work at the moment? Does a driver start off in Westbury to Bath, then a break, then 267 Frome and back, then break, then 272 to Melksham and back, then break, then up to Westbury on 265?
     
  20. Private Baxter

    Private Baxter Established Member

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    I think what they do is drive to Bath from Westbury, from where the 265 changes either into a 267 or 272. Arriving in Bath, the same driver does a return trip to Melksham, then back to Westbury as 265, before being relieved for the Salisbury section. Westbury drivers do either a Frome return trip, or Melksham. I don't know the west Wiltshire area specially well, so don't know what distances are like, so don't know if simply driving empty from Westbury to either Melksham or Frome and starting there would be beneficial or if there would be too much dead mileage. Remember there used to be outstations at Melksham and Frome.
     
  21. Marc

    Marc Member

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    Firsts cozy relationship with faresaver in wiltshire has echoes of a formorly cozy arrangement in weston....
     
  22. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    The way I think it's done (but Matt can confirm) is that vehicles start in Westbury and run empty to Frome or Melksham. It's about 5 miles to Frome via Chapmanslade (bit longer via Dilton) and about 8 miles Bowerhill. There's no service from Melksham to Westbury (never really has been either) which isn't surprising as there's nothing on the A350 after Semington was bypassed.

    So WY is closer than running from Bath; on the 272, they used to run two early journeys from Bath to Bowerhill in service but in reality, they were empty.

    I think they run through to Bath, then do a return trip on 267 or 272 and then back. During the middle of the day, changeovers were done at Trowbridge but since August, I don't know if they're done at Westbury.

    I'm sorry but I can't see any additional services coming
     
  23. FSW Official

    FSW Official Member

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  24. 1905 Group

    1905 Group Member

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    Does anyone know if BoS 34176/8 have been withdrawn yet? And 66729 was noted on a 1 earlier.
     
  25. Class 33

    Class 33 Established Member

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    Only two or three weeks to go untill we find out what the Sunday 24th April changes will be. Anyone got any idea what services will change? I don't think there will be any major changes to any services myself, nor any brand new services introduced. I certainly think there will be no major changes to the 1,2, 75 & 76 as usual! Nope nothing special these changes I think, just some minor timetable amendments to some services I expect.
     
    Last edited: 4 Feb 2016
  26. THarris123

    THarris123 Established Member

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    If it is actually someone official from BoS/Kernow on the forum, then a very warm welcome.

    Thank you for confirming what's going on. I assume that'll be 60915/6 from Eastern Counties - I wonder if they'll be displaced by these 8 Streetdecks due to arrive at Norwich (along with the other 02 reg B7ls - I'm hoping we won't get them in Bristol!).

    Is the eventual plan to withdraw the 51/02 reg stuff this/next year?

    Also is the 21 going to get anything new(er)?
     
  27. vicbury

    vicbury Member

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    Maybe we'll see some deals brokered by BANES such as on the 349/38/39 with First and Abus?
     
  28. freetoview33

    freetoview33 Established Member

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    Nice to see someone official on here!
     
  29. TheGrandWazoo

    TheGrandWazoo Veteran Member

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    Somehow, I don't see that happening. They could've tried that with the 234 etc
     
  30. vicbury

    vicbury Member

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    True but for me it didn't make much sense for First to operate the 234.

    Shared operation of the Chippenham and Melksham routes would make sense with First operating early journeys towards Wiltshire and late journeys towards Bath; and Faresaver operating early journeys towards Bath and late journeys towards Wiltshire.
     

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