First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[matt_splat]

i believe two bath busses are off to cardiff on tuesday to work rail replacement services.

 

[vicbury]

To only be 20 minutes down on good Friday is impressive. Down here on the sunny Solent we had multiple buses over 60 minutes late. Football traffic and people heading to/from the seafront caused gridlock on the network.

The problem with running a Saturday service on bank holidays is that there is NO demand before 9am and after 7pm, so a tailored Saturday service would be better. But when traffic causes issues buses are still going to be late, you're just going to have more buses caught in the same traffic.

Out of interest do Bristol and Bath use the same trapeze tracking system as Hampshire?

The system in the West of England is provided by Vix; further details here.

The system doesn't seem the most reliable to be honest with stops often displaying "please refer to timetables" although the data-feeds to third-party websites and apps usually do the job.

How proactive is Portsmouth City Council at getting relevant information to bus stops? B&NES Council seems to be getting better at getting the bus stop displays to show relevant closure / diversion information.

In Bath there has been a mass roll-out of bus stop displays over the past few years although the prioritisation of which stops get displays first seems a little odd. For example, none of the stops on Dorchester Street (outside the bus and rail stations) are fitted with the displays.

First, for their part, seem pretty good at keeping vehicles fitted with trackers and most services count down as they should.
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i believe two bath busses are off to cardiff on tuesday to work rail replacement services.

Let's hope one of them is 42909; it's a disgrace!

 

[Class 33]

Filton rail engineering works between Saturday 28th and Monday 30th May. With rail replacement buses between Bristol and Avonmouth/Severn beach, Newport and Gloucester. Anyone know if these will be actual BUSES operating these services, or just the usual coaches? Would be great to get a ride to Gloucester and back if it was buses like Streetdecks, Enviro 400's, or some other buses. I expect it will just be the usual coaches though?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The system in the West of England is provided by Vix; further details here.

The system doesn't seem the most reliable to be honest with stops often displaying "please refer to timetables" although the data-feeds to third-party websites and apps usually do the job.

How proactive is Portsmouth City Council at getting relevant information to bus stops? B&NES Council seems to be getting better at getting the bus stop displays to show relevant closure / diversion information.

In Bath there has been a mass roll-out of bus stop displays over the past few years although the prioritisation of which stops get displays first seems a little odd. For example, none of the stops on Dorchester Street (outside the bus and rail stations) are fitted with the displays.

First, for their part, seem pretty good at keeping vehicles fitted with trackers and most services count down as they should.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Let's hope one of them is 42909; it's a disgrace!

It is getting better in BaNES who are one of the better LA's for supporting bus services and roadside publicity. Travel out past Writhlington and it seems we've entered a nether world of council bus support!! That said, I'm sure BaNES won't be immune from cuts for much longer; we can see what's happening in Wiltshire and they've been very good for a long time

Not been on 42909 for a long time. Is it as bad as 44919 was?

 

[tbtc]

I've had a few days in/around Bristol this week, first time in a while, so a few observations/ questions I was wondering if the great and good of this thread could answer...

Firstly. I'm impressed with the First operation. It seems they've come a long way from the "ex-London dumping ground" and significant numbers of older vehicles (step entrance Darts etc) that I experienced previously. Whilst I appreciate the DDA deadline has forced many fleets to improve, I saw few Bristol buses over ten years old (in comparison, Sheffield still has R-reg B10BLEs in operation as well as large numbers of X/02/52 reg buses).

I mention Sheffield as in some ways the cities are comparable (broadly similar population, similarly poor local train services, difficult topography for buses to deal with, long narrow city centre corridors, had First running things for over fifteen years), but Bristol seems to be doing a LOT better (Streetdecks aplenty).

Talking of similarities between the two areas, you also seem to be having the "light rail solution downgraded to guided busway downgraded to a few sections of bus priority" muddle that we have experienced in recent years Seems to be the same in a few cities, to be fair, as ambitious local authorities/ PTEs apply the "death of a thousand cuts" to their pet projects (as costs escalate etc).

Is the improvement in Bristol due to the "bus network" investment (?), the increase in competition (from Wessex) or just a case of where Bristol is in the feast/famine cycle of First investment (they tend to get the chequebook out every five years in Sheffield for a big splurge of new vehicles - 1998, 2002, 2008, 2013 - with little inbetwen)

There seems to be a lot more service to Temple Meads (50/51/70/71, as well as the perennial 8/9) and from the Clifton area to Cribbs Causeway compared to when I was last down (back when many Clifton services were forty-something rather than the 1/2/3/4/8/9 and the service beyond Henbury seemed less frequent?).

One big difference with Sheffield is that Bristol still has a significant number of services terminating in the city centre. I can understand this being the case in Birmingham due to the size of the connurbation, I can understand it in Manchester due to the splitting of GMN/GMS, but is it a historic thing in Bristol? I get that having services terminate in the city centre improves punctuality, but it also must mean a lot of congestion around city centre junctions that must hamper punctuality? How many services are really needed from Centre to Broadmead?

You've also got one of the best night bus networks around, something that I don't remember from when I was drinking down there before - looking good.

When did joint working with Stagecoach to Wales end? Was it "amicable"?

I was one of those perky people clogging up the Bank Holiday 8 to Clifton, but I've got a lot of sympathy for First - given how unpredictable Bank Holidays can be (especially with the weather) - and how variable the demand will be. Same goes for Sundays - a December Sunday should see a lot more shoppers than a February Sunday but is it worth having different timetables? Not convinced.

That said, has the 8/9 ever had 'deckers? It was always Darts (inc those Marshall bodied London ones) when I was down in the past, but I'm an infrequent visitor!

There seem to be a lot of hourly "orbital" services around the north/ north-east of the city but little co-ordination. Was this ever thus? Some First operations have beefed up their orbital routes (e.g. the 34 in Glasgow), but there are some corridors in Bristol that seem underserved (to this out-of-towner). For example, Hanbury gets a service to Cribbs Causeway every couple of minutes but Parkway to Cribbs Causeway is only half hourly on the 319 (plus some hourly 82s/ X5s). Same from Parkway to the UWE. So there ends up being lots of infrequent services around north Bristol, making the map quite complicated, rather than something "turn up and go" to link the main places. I'm not going to suggest a mega-fantasy-rip-it-up-and-start-again solution, just wondered whether things were getting more or less complicated?

Lastly (!), when was the 72 introduced? I don't remember such a service from previous visits (IIRC there was a 20/21/22 around Redland, but nothing from the Clifton area to the UWE?

(if you're read this far then thanks for putting up with my uninformed observations!)

 

[freetoview33]

The system in the West of England is provided by Vix; further details here.

The system doesn't seem the most reliable to be honest with stops often displaying "please refer to timetables" although the data-feeds to third-party websites and apps usually do the job.

How proactive is Portsmouth City Council at getting relevant information to bus stops? B&NES Council seems to be getting better at getting the bus stop displays to show relevant closure / diversion information.

In Bath there has been a mass roll-out of bus stop displays over the past few years although the prioritisation of which stops get displays first seems a little odd. For example, none of the stops on Dorchester Street (outside the bus and rail stations) are fitted with the displays.

First, for their part, seem pretty good at keeping vehicles fitted with trackers and most services count down as they should.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Let's hope one of them is 42909; it's a disgrace!

The bristol ones are improving too.when they work

 

[vicbury]

It is getting better in BaNES who are one of the better LA's for supporting bus services and roadside publicity. Travel out past Writhlington and it seems we've entered a nether world of council bus support!! That said, I'm sure BaNES won't be immune from cuts for much longer; we can see what's happening in Wiltshire and they've been very good for a long time

Not been on 42909 for a long time. Is it as bad as 44919 was?

It runs as if the engine was lifted out of 44919 and donated to 42909...

 

[Class 33]

That said, has the 8/9 ever had 'deckers? It was always Darts (inc those Marshall bodied London ones) when I was down in the past, but I'm an infrequent visitor!

Lastly (!), when was the 72 introduced? I don't remember such a service from previous visits (IIRC there was a 20/21/22 around Redland, but nothing from the Clifton area to the UWE?

The 8 & 9 has always been single decker services. Although back in the early 1990's there were some instances of double deckers being used on some of the workings. I remember a few times seeing the lovely Leyland Olympians on these services. And here's a photo(not my photo though) of one of those instances! https://www.flickr.com/photos/ewood...UT7-fP9ia2-jXcBZU-8NheQ2-cVBfJ9-acXHvB-kVQGug

A history of the service 72, though not in too much detail! The 72 was introduced some time back in the 1970's! Initially as a Centre-Filton service. Then extended to a Hartcliffe-Filton service in 1982. Then from 1986 became a Centre-Stoke Lodge service. 1988 and it was extended beyond Stoke Lodge onto Bradley Stoke and Cribbs Causeway. 1989 it was then cut back to Bradley Stoke. Service lasted untill 2002, when it was then axed. However September 2014 and the 72 was back again, this time in it's current form of a Broadmead-UWE service.

 

[freetoview33]

There was the 99 which served a similar route to the 72.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've had a few days in/around Bristol this week, first time in a while, so a few observations/ questions I was wondering if the great and good of this thread could answer...

Firstly. I'm impressed with the First operation. It seems they've come a long way from the "ex-London dumping ground" and significant numbers of older vehicles (step entrance Darts etc) that I experienced previously. Whilst I appreciate the DDA deadline has forced many fleets to improve, I saw few Bristol buses over ten years old (in comparison, Sheffield still has R-reg B10BLEs in operation as well as large numbers of X/02/52 reg buses).

I mention Sheffield as in some ways the cities are comparable (broadly similar population, similarly poor local train services, difficult topography for buses to deal with, long narrow city centre corridors, had First running things for over fifteen years), but Bristol seems to be doing a LOT better (Streetdecks aplenty).

Talking of similarities between the two areas, you also seem to be having the "light rail solution downgraded to guided busway downgraded to a few sections of bus priority" muddle that we have experienced in recent years Seems to be the same in a few cities, to be fair, as ambitious local authorities/ PTEs apply the "death of a thousand cuts" to their pet projects (as costs escalate etc).

Is the improvement in Bristol due to the "bus network" investment (?), the increase in competition (from Wessex) or just a case of where Bristol is in the feast/famine cycle of First investment (they tend to get the chequebook out every five years in Sheffield for a big splurge of new vehicles - 1998, 2002, 2008, 2013 - with little inbetwen)

There seems to be a lot more service to Temple Meads (50/51/70/71, as well as the perennial 8/9) and from the Clifton area to Cribbs Causeway compared to when I was last down (back when many Clifton services were forty-something rather than the 1/2/3/4/8/9 and the service beyond Henbury seemed less frequent?).

One big difference with Sheffield is that Bristol still has a significant number of services terminating in the city centre. I can understand this being the case in Birmingham due to the size of the connurbation, I can understand it in Manchester due to the splitting of GMN/GMS, but is it a historic thing in Bristol? I get that having services terminate in the city centre improves punctuality, but it also must mean a lot of congestion around city centre junctions that must hamper punctuality? How many services are really needed from Centre to Broadmead?

You've also got one of the best night bus networks around, something that I don't remember from when I was drinking down there before - looking good.

When did joint working with Stagecoach to Wales end? Was it "amicable"?

I was one of those perky people clogging up the Bank Holiday 8 to Clifton, but I've got a lot of sympathy for First - given how unpredictable Bank Holidays can be (especially with the weather) - and how variable the demand will be. Same goes for Sundays - a December Sunday should see a lot more shoppers than a February Sunday but is it worth having different timetables? Not convinced.

That said, has the 8/9 ever had 'deckers? It was always Darts (inc those Marshall bodied London ones) when I was down in the past, but I'm an infrequent visitor!

There seem to be a lot of hourly "orbital" services around the north/ north-east of the city but little co-ordination. Was this ever thus? Some First operations have beefed up their orbital routes (e.g. the 34 in Glasgow), but there are some corridors in Bristol that seem underserved (to this out-of-towner). For example, Hanbury gets a service to Cribbs Causeway every couple of minutes but Parkway to Cribbs Causeway is only half hourly on the 319 (plus some hourly 82s/ X5s). Same from Parkway to the UWE. So there ends up being lots of infrequent services around north Bristol, making the map quite complicated, rather than something "turn up and go" to link the main places. I'm not going to suggest a mega-fantasy-rip-it-up-and-start-again solution, just wondered whether things were getting more or less complicated?

Lastly (!), when was the 72 introduced? I don't remember such a service from previous visits (IIRC there was a 20/21/22 around Redland, but nothing from the Clifton area to the UWE?

(if you're read this far then thanks for putting up with my uninformed observations!)

No, always good to get some different observations.

The Good Friday service is a fair point. Had the weather been similar to the day before or day after, the services would've been rubbish. What is odd is that most areas in the south of England had largely Sunday services (Southern Vectis, BoS, First Kernow, GSC, Plymouth Citybus, Stagecoach SW, First HD, First Berkshire, Stagecoach South) whilst other areas further north had Saturday services (First Worcester, First Cymru, Stagecoach West, Stagecoach Cymru). Some of these are quite touristy - reflects the early Easter?

The 8/9 have historically been single deck. Over the last 20 years, they've had standard Darts, then Lance SLFs (ex London), then the Marshall Darts you remember. We've since had some new B7RLEs and Dart SLFs, and now over to Streetlites.

I think you've been lucky not to see too many older vehicles. Bristol has done well in recent years but there are a lot of older deckers from W reg Tridents (just a pair left in Bristol) and B7TLs through to a recent influx of 51 plate B7TLs from Leicester, a large batch of B7TLs ex London (53 plate) and also some native ones of a similar age. The lack of DD capacity has meant a harvesting of whatever they could get from across the country!! However, should see some more new fleet to continue the progress!!

You're spot on about the issue of cross city services. Congestion is rife and many have been cut in half. However, there are some major cross city flows with maintaining of north south links with Southmead Hospital and Cribbs and the south of the city.

Also agree with your views on the night network. As for the workings with Stagecoach Cymru, they were pulling back from Monmouthshire anyway so think it was mutual. The irony being that they've exited but we now have Stagecoach West and SW now visiting the city!!

 

[DaveHarries]

I know what's happening in Wells. I won't reveal what's happening to 377 and 375 without authority from FSW official to do so.

However, i'm going to reveal the following:-
Wells are no longer overstaffed - they have a full crew
Wells will be running shuttles to Glastonbury Festival this year - not sure what vehicles will be used though - maybe BoS Tridents?
Wells will be getting 379 and 178 which is truly stupid in September
Wells depot will be its own independent depot as of April (not sure when, but early April) and no longer tied to Bath or Weston.

Well this makes interesting reading and I agree that Wells running the 178/379 makes no sense whatsoever: I wonder if that idea will prove to be as permanent as a f**t in a wind tunnel - . Anyway my thoughts are that the 379 could have at least some of the journeys starting / finishing at Farrington Gurney with empty running to / from Wells?

Dave

 

[freetoview33]

I have finally worked out the difference between the 53 and 54! Other than what buses operate it!

the difference is ... the 53 uses stop Temple Meads (Ta) and the 54 uses stop Temple Meads (Tc)
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Also as mentioned before the Jurassic Coast services are slightly easier to understand now.

X51: Dorchester - Axminster (Hourly)
X52: Bridport - Exeter (2 Hourly)
X53: Weymouth - Axminster (Hourly)
X54: Poole - Weymouth (2 Hourly)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well this makes interesting reading and I agree that Wells running the 178/379 makes no sense whatsoever: I wonder if that idea will prove to be as permanent as a f**t in a wind tunnel - . Anyway my thoughts are that the 379 could have at least some of the journeys starting / finishing at Farrington Gurney with empty running to / from Wells?

Dave

I have to say that I'm surprised about them both heading to Wells. Hard enough to manage with Bath depot let alone Wells. Must be a reflection of the lack of drivers at Bath. However, odd that they are doing that change in Sep whereas it loses the 375/7 now?

Now waiting for TH123 to do the big reveal on the 73/77 and 54/55!

 

[Class 33]

I have finally worked out the difference between the 53 and 54! Other than what buses operate it!

the difference is ... the 53 uses stop Temple Meads (Ta) and the 54 uses stop Temple Meads (Tc)

This was mentioned a couple of weeks ago.

Bit daft in my opinion. Two different service numbers with just a VERY MINOR variation.

 

[THarris123]

I have to say that I'm surprised about them both heading to Wells. Hard enough to manage with Bath depot let alone Wells. Must be a reflection of the lack of drivers at Bath. However, odd that they are doing that change in Sep whereas it loses the 375/7 now?

Now waiting for TH123 to do the big reveal on the 73/77 and 54/55!

Well I know a little bit about 73/77. Don't know about 54/55 though.

I did think that maybe the 379 route might change - maybe revert back to Shepton to Bristol a couple of times of the day?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well I know a little bit about 73/77. Don't know about 54/55 though.

I did think that maybe the 379 route might change - maybe revert back to Shepton to Bristol a couple of times of the day?

Ok, we'll wait to see what's with the 54/55 and the 14/15 for that matter. Can you share what's happening with the 73/77? Any frequency changes? How is 77 operated?

 

[THarris123]

Ok, we'll wait to see what's with the 54/55 and the 14/15 for that matter. Can you share what's happening with the 73/77? Any frequency changes? How is 77 operated?

Oh fine.

Yes there are frequency changes - I understand 375 will be much less. 377 will be same frequency.

77 to be operated from Wells under BoS with BoS drivers.

Das ist alles.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh fine.

Yes there are frequency changes - I understand 375 will be much less. 377 will be same frequency.

77 to be operated from Wells under BoS with BoS drivers.

Das ist alles.

Be interesting to see how much the 73 will be "much less".

Also, a BoS outstation at Wells..... be of interest to see how that works and how vehicles are maintained etc.
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Bit of congestion on the northbound M32 this morning. Looks like a relatively minor RTA involving First Bristol 32074 and a car - hopefully it is just pride and body panels that were affected and that no injuries to people were sustained

 

[DS85]

I got told the 55 will follow Webberbuses 38 route.

 

[pompeyfan]

In regards to Vix, they maintain the roadside kit around here but the data is fed to the system using trapeze. If I can get a picture of what the controllers see I'll share it. It really is a great system.

In terms of posting information, I've only seen it a few times. This is done by PCC when (for example) the M275 was shut due to an RTA and caused gridlock. They also use it to advertise seasonal P&R changes.

The BRT route is an interesting point of discussion, it does seem to work well and is popular, but the branding and roadside kit could do with a touch up. Very sad new last month that a female pedestrian was struck by a bus and died a week later on the unlit section. I think a guided busway like Cambridge would have been better.

Finally. I'm currently sat on 44916, and drove 44918 yesterday, and both of which are now really good machines, no rattles, powerful and the ride is okay. It actually feels like a 7 year old bus instead of a 17 year old heap!

 

[FSW Official]

Oh fine.

Yes there are frequency changes - I understand 375 will be much less. 377 will be same frequency.

77 to be operated from Wells under BoS with BoS drivers.

Das ist alles.

No it won't! It'll be operated from Taunton in a cycle with the 54 and 55

 

[CD]

No it won't! It'll be operated from Taunton in a cycle with the 54 and 55

Lets hope there will be big layovers in Yeovil as the timekeeping on the 54 leaves much to be desired.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lets hope there will be big layovers in Yeovil as the timekeeping on the 54 leaves much to be desired.

Is that because of the roundabout works in Yeovil?

I'm sure it will be apparent soon enough. We should get the times on Traveline in a short while.

And we haven't even got onto the speculation as to what may operate them? A return of the B10BLE to Wells - surely that's got to cheer you up!!

 

[CD]

Is that because of the roundabout works in Yeovil?

No not just that, the 54s have been very bad for timekeeping ever since they were extended to Musgrove Park Hospital. Hopefully now they to terminate at Taunton Bus Station again it will improve, although the 54 is quite tightly timed.

As for Yeovil Hospital roundabout, it has had a dramatic effect on Yeovil town services for the last 2 months (and 2 more to go !). Today for example route 1 running up to 35 minutes late with some half trips being lost to make up time.
The 2 and 3 which are 15 minutes apart from bus station to Lyde Road, I saw all 4 in the space of 10 minutes.
At the other end of town there was a problem coming in from the Sherborne direction and the 57 was running 30 minutes late and 58 15 minutes late.
Both the 54 (32935) and the 377 (60912) I saw were over 15 minutes late.
The only things I saw which were both only about 5 minutes late were the 2 Solo SRs on Webberbus 34, which started today.

 

[Marc]

In regards to Vix, they maintain the roadside kit around here but the data is fed to the system using trapeze. If I can get a picture of what the controllers see I'll share it. It really is a great system.

In terms of posting information, I've only seen it a few times. This is done by PCC when (for example) the M275 was shut due to an RTA and caused gridlock. They also use it to advertise seasonal P&R changes.

from a passenger perspective, the vix system around avon is weak. it works ok on frequeny main routes, but is hopeless in towns like keynsham and midsummer norton. a seriously large number of buses which should be predicted dont show up on it and there are a lot of services and companys which dont ever show up on the countdowns.

The BRT route is an interesting point of discussion, it does seem to work well and is popular, but the branding and roadside kit could do with a touch up. Very sad new last month that a female pedestrian was struck by a bus and died a week later on the unlit section. I think a guided busway like Cambridge would have been better.

dispite all the effort being made to dig up most of bristol again, metrobus is going to struggle. the routes dont follow established passenger flows and much of the metrobus network around south bristol wont have any advantage over a normal bus. bristol city council cant even agree on how the ticketing will work on them, their just obsessed with smartcards on everything, dispite the fact the travelwest smartcards are sooooo slooooooow. its a shame that nobody has pointed out to them how much more successfull firsts mobile ticketing app has been than their smart cards.

i dont really see the point in metrobus without guided busways involved. what their building is a bus lane, not anything more glamarus.

 

[ryson357]

I got told the 55 will follow Webberbuses 38 route.

So that could mean a better frequency to Wells from Taunton ? Rather than having to catch the 29!?

 

[pompeyfan]

I agree that the M ticket app is great, it's really well used now, and after all the bugs have been ironed out it seems to be reliable. The only issue is keeping enough battery on your phone. I don't think smart cards are firsts priority although it would make drivers lives so much easier providing they're programmed properly. Lots of passes have restrictions that are easy to miss if the passenger are being crafty. I think the aim is to have contactless payment running as a matter of urgency, especially with the rise in Apple and Android pay.

If info isn't appearing on Vix screens that's down to the local PTA, so in that case I'd assume someone hasn't entered the data into the system.

 

[matt_splat]

the 376 was doing a interesting diversion today passed one in stowey due to a accident on the A37 the deckers took a slight diversion.

 

[Private Baxter]

Based on the info over the last page, a working out of Taunton might look like this:
54 Taunton to Yeovil
77 Yeovil to Wells
55 Wells to Taunton
Good obviously to restore regular links Wells to Taunton, but wouldn't that then create a twice hourly service between Wells and Somerton? And might the 29 eventually become obsolete? But like everyone wonder what will be filling the vacancies left by 375/377 in Wells.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well this makes interesting reading and I agree that Wells running the 178/379 makes no sense whatsoever: I wonder if that idea will prove to be as permanent as a f**t in a wind tunnel - . Anyway my thoughts are that the 379 could have at least some of the journeys starting / finishing at Farrington Gurney with empty running to / from Wells?

Dave

Sometimes routes move depot in what seems like a temporary solution, and often it seems as though the decision will be reversed. Examples over the last five years include 332, 357/8/9, 126, X6. Some of the forthcoming transfers I think will not last forever.

 

[THarris123]

I got told the 55 will follow Webberbuses 38 route.

Isn't that just the 54? As the 38 follows the 54 to Somerton I thought.